RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,686
Posts: 5,430,511
Members: 24,830
Currently online: 380
Newest member: Old Man 51


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old May 27 2013, 08:59 PM   #1
JackSparrowJive
Ensign
 
Spoilers: The "bad guy" wasnt really who he said he was!

You know all the hubub about how Khan looks different in the new movie? Well there is one simple explanation: the character we saw in "Into Darkness" wasnt really Khan! Who was he? This guy:

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Joachim

Notice the similarity of appearance between that picture and Benedict Cumberbatch?

So here is what happens: section 31 find the Botany Bay, and awakens Joachim(but has no idea what his name really is). He asks them where he is and what is going on, and they explain it is 300 years since he was frozen and that they are looking for Khan. Now remember, this guy is a devious super-intelligent bad guy. What does he say? Simple: He tells them HE is Khan!


So there you have it! Problem solved. At least, thats my theory and I'm sticking to it.
JackSparrowJive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 27 2013, 09:34 PM   #2
FarStrider
Commander
 
FarStrider's Avatar
 
Send a message via Yahoo to FarStrider
Re: Spoilers: The "bad guy" wasnt really who he said he was!

Here's a less convoluted solution to said 'hubbub'. . . Two words for you: Plastic. Surgery.

Any other 'hubbub' that needs a solution? I'm sure we can think of it.


~FS
__________________
"No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style. . . "
FarStrider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 27 2013, 09:37 PM   #3
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: Spoilers: The "bad guy" wasnt really who he said he was!

The only way he isn't Khan is if Cumberbatch isn't available the next time they need the character.
__________________
"I tell you what you all need, you need to take a thirteenth step, down off your high horse." - Hank Hill, King of the Hill
BillJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 27 2013, 09:52 PM   #4
King Daniel Into Darkness
Admiral
 
King Daniel Into Darkness's Avatar
 
Location: England again
Re: Spoilers: The "bad guy" wasnt really who he said he was!

One word: retcon. It's Khan. He's white now, because having an Indian or Middle-Eastern guy playing the crazy space terrorist would suck.

Note that Khan already turned white (as did all his followers, white and blond) in Wrath of Khan. Explain that!
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
King Daniel Into Darkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 27 2013, 10:06 PM   #5
ChristopherPike
Rear Admiral
 
ChristopherPike's Avatar
 
Re: Spoilers: The "bad guy" wasnt really who he said he was!

Cumberbatch lacked quite a lot of the qualities Montalban imbued the character with. For me anyway.

So I'm happy to go along with this. I had a hard time imagining Khan working for anybody, however short that might've been. Whereas I can picture Admiral Marcus having a hold over one of his subordinates, at least until the backmailed character achieves his aim of awakening others... his leader, Khan, chief among them.

If it was Khan, I'd imagine no secret training or working for Section 31. He'd be revived and cause chaos immediately. Be completely uncontrollable, as he was in a pretty short space of time during "Space Seed".
__________________
STAR TREK: ENTERPRISE Season 5 on Netflix Facebook page
ChristopherPike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 27 2013, 10:09 PM   #6
JackSparrowJive
Ensign
 
Re: Spoilers: The "bad guy" wasnt really who he said he was!

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
One word: retcon. It's Khan. He's white now, because having an Indian or Middle-Eastern guy playing the crazy space terrorist would suck.

Note that Khan already turned white (as did all his followers, white and blond) in Wrath of Khan. Explain that!
Dont get me wrong; I understand the "real life" explanation for why he looks different. But this is my own little pet theory for an in universe explanation, and TBH I think its pretty reasonable.
JackSparrowJive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 27 2013, 10:10 PM   #7
Halmirdax
Lieutenant Commander
 
Halmirdax's Avatar
 
Location: Studio
Re: Spoilers: The "bad guy" wasnt really who he said he was!

You put a lot of thought into that but I think it was Khan and they just didn't go for TOS accuracy. Although I read for Into Darkness, Benicio Del Toro was a possible for the role.
http://screenrant.com/benicio-del-to...an-rob-142302/
That would have been pretty intense although Cumberbatch did a hand of memorable acting.
Halmirdax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 27 2013, 10:12 PM   #8
Anduril
Captain
 
Anduril's Avatar
 
Location: Kentucky
Re: Spoilers: The "bad guy" wasnt really who he said he was!

.
__________________
The world is indeed comic, but the joke is on mankind. -- H.P. Lovecraft
Anduril is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 27 2013, 10:15 PM   #9
Anduril
Captain
 
Anduril's Avatar
 
Location: Kentucky
Re: Spoilers: The "bad guy" wasnt really who he said he was!

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
One word: retcon. It's Khan. He's white now, because having an Indian or Middle-Eastern guy playing the crazy space terrorist would suck.

Note that Khan already turned white (as did all his followers, white and blond) in Wrath of Khan. Explain that!
They can't explain it. It's just conveniently overlooked.
__________________
The world is indeed comic, but the joke is on mankind. -- H.P. Lovecraft
Anduril is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 27 2013, 10:16 PM   #10
InklingStar
Fleet Captain
 
InklingStar's Avatar
 
Location: Olympia, Washington, USA
View InklingStar's Twitter Profile
Re: Spoilers: The "bad guy" wasnt really who he said he was!

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
One word: retcon. It's Khan. He's white now, because having an Indian or Middle-Eastern guy playing the crazy space terrorist would suck.

Note that Khan already turned white (as did all his followers, white and blond) in Wrath of Khan. Explain that!
Henceforth, he shall be called "RetKhan!"
__________________
"In the name of the best within you, do not sacrifice this world to those who are its worst."
InklingStar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 27 2013, 10:28 PM   #11
Belz...
Fleet Captain
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Location: In a finely-crafted cosmos... of my own making.
Re: Spoilers: The "bad guy" wasnt really who he said he was!

FarStrider wrote: View Post
Here's a less convoluted solution to said 'hubbub'. . . Two words for you: Plastic. Surgery.
Here's an even simpler one: different actors.

I mean, why does Kirk look different ?
__________________
And that's my opinion.
Belz... is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 27 2013, 10:51 PM   #12
ChristopherPike
Rear Admiral
 
ChristopherPike's Avatar
 
Re: Spoilers: The "bad guy" wasnt really who he said he was!

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
One word: retcon. It's Khan. He's white now, because having an Indian or Middle-Eastern guy playing the crazy space terrorist would suck.
Possibly controversial. But no more so than your average episode of 24. I had a big problem with them keeping the name Khan Noonien Singh then really, given the casting. It is you'll note... a name which denotes Indian and/or Middle Eastern ethnicity. Why not make several other racially representative TOS characters different from what was previously established too? Despite the fact both Prime and Abramsverse converge in the past and there are certain kinds of casting changes which don't add up?

Note that Khan already turned white (as did all his followers, white and blond) in Wrath of Khan. Explain that!
I don't think they deliberately set out to make Khan white. He was Montalban, in his natural skin tone, minus whatever makeup TOS had given him.

In-universe, it probably had to do with their exile to Ceti Alpha V and the nearby explosion of its neighbour. Radiation and other environmental changes, could have a strange effect on genetically engineered people. Certainly that might explain change in hair colour from black to white. Certainly less hoops to jump through really, than I have to do to explain Khan as things currently stand.
__________________
STAR TREK: ENTERPRISE Season 5 on Netflix Facebook page
ChristopherPike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 27 2013, 10:54 PM   #13
Jeff O'Connor
Commodore
 
Jeff O'Connor's Avatar
 
Location: Tampa, FL
Send a message via AIM to Jeff O'Connor Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to Jeff O'Connor
Re: Spoilers: The "bad guy" wasnt really who he said he was!

InklingStar wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
One word: retcon. It's Khan. He's white now, because having an Indian or Middle-Eastern guy playing the crazy space terrorist would suck.

Note that Khan already turned white (as did all his followers, white and blond) in Wrath of Khan. Explain that!
Henceforth, he shall be called "RetKhan!"
Shucks, beat me to it.
__________________
Star Trek
1966-
Jeff O'Connor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 27 2013, 11:25 PM   #14
Admiral Buzzkill
Fleet Admiral
 
Re: Spoilers: The "bad guy" wasnt really who he said he was!

He's Khan. It's that simple.
Admiral Buzzkill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 27 2013, 11:30 PM   #15
sj4iy
Commander
 
sj4iy's Avatar
 
Location: US
Re: Spoilers: The "bad guy" wasnt really who he said he was!

He's...Mary Poppins!



Dah dah DAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

(yeah, that picture doesn't get old)
sj4iy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:17 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.