RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 138,901
Posts: 5,387,145
Members: 24,717
Currently online: 544
Newest member: teriankhoka

TrekToday headlines

Gold Key Archives Volume 2
By: T'Bonz on Aug 19

Takei Documentary Wins Award
By: T'Bonz on Aug 19

Cumberbatch To Voice Khan
By: T'Bonz on Aug 19

Shaun And Ed On Phineas and Ferb
By: T'Bonz on Aug 18

New Ships Coming From Official Starships Collection
By: T'Bonz on Aug 18

Trek Stars Take On Ice Bucket Challenge
By: T'Bonz on Aug 18

Retro Review: Profit and Lace
By: Michelle on Aug 16

Eve Engaged
By: T'Bonz on Aug 15

Shatner’s Get A Life DVD Debuts
By: T'Bonz on Aug 14

TV Alert: Takei Oprah Appearance
By: T'Bonz on Aug 14


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Doctor Who

Doctor Who "Bigger on the inside..."

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old May 28 2013, 04:39 AM   #61
The Mirrorball Man
Vice Admiral
 
The Mirrorball Man's Avatar
 
Location: Switzerland
View The Mirrorball Man's Twitter Profile
Re: Doctor Who accused of racism

Maestro wrote: View Post
If they wanted to bitch about NCIS being racist, by all means, but Doctor Who? Sorry, not your country folks. STFU/GTFO.
If that was some kind of elaborate metacommentary about racism, it was brilliant. Otherwise, it was stupid.
__________________
Check out my deviantArt gallery!
The Mirrorball Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 28 2013, 04:59 AM   #62
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: Doctor Who accused of racism

So why did they cast a white guy in Talons of Weng Chang?

3 was meeting officials from Communist China in Mind of Evil, played by Chinese actors, and claimed Chairman Mao to be one of his personal friends... Of course if Chinese intelligence would have chosen to test that gem, they would have called him an imposter since it's more than likely to have been One or Two who had these Chinese adventures in Chairman Mao's youth.

Chairman Mao is his bud, but Nixon is a Shmuck?
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz

Last edited by Guy Gardener; May 28 2013 at 07:57 AM.
Guy Gardener is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 28 2013, 07:43 AM   #63
Konata Izumi
Commander
 
Konata Izumi's Avatar
 
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Re: Doctor Who accused of racism

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
So why did they cast a white guy in Talons of Weng Chang?
Would a real Chinese ever have looked as scary-"Chinese" as that uncanny dude did? I think he put some of the stuff in his face in-universe, picked Mr. Sin as the puppet's name, to make it all scary cool, to sell tickets. Plus they did a joke about prejudice, with the gun, even if it's easy to read too much into it.

Last edited by Konata Izumi; May 28 2013 at 08:02 AM.
Konata Izumi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 28 2013, 08:43 AM   #64
Dimesdan
Rear Admiral
 
Dimesdan's Avatar
 
Location: The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to Dimesdan
Re: Doctor Who accused of racism

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Dimesdan.

When you imagine this load of bollocks... What colours are they?
Tardis Blue.
__________________
People in third world countries are so lucky they don't have to deal with these problems. - TheGodBen

I'm on twitter now. @DimesDaniel
Dimesdan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 28 2013, 09:11 AM   #65
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: Doctor Who accused of racism

Oh goodness.

By volume?

Half a dozen Na'vi bollock's takes up the same volume as 16,000 Smurf bollocks.
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz
Guy Gardener is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 28 2013, 02:49 PM   #66
Ubik
Commodore
 
Re: Doctor Who accused of racism

Maestro wrote: View Post
The book was written by a consortium of 23 academics and bloggers, primarily Americans, partially Australian, and with only a few Brits. The fact that a bunch of non-British folks are bitching about a British show lends them precious little credibility to begin with. Add to that that they're academics and feminist issue bloggers, I just really don't think the book should be taken seriously.

If they wanted to bitch about NCIS being racist, by all means, but Doctor Who? Sorry, not your country folks. STFU/GTFO.
Just to clarify: your argument is that "academics" ought never to be taken seriously? Is that your real opinion? Not only is that an ad hominem fallacy, but it's a damned bizarre one. Martin Luther King Jr. was an academic. Most of the major movers and shakers in the feminist movement of the 70's (a movement that every woman on this BBS board is living the fruits of) were academics, and "feminist issue" people. The people who are (hopefully) eventually going to save this planet from climate change extinction are going to be academics. Since this is primarily a science fiction board, allow me to point out that many of the best science fiction authors of all time were / are academics. I'm just saying - it was a very strange comment for you to make. (Perhaps I misunderstood?)

Anyway, the attack of racism on Doctor Who would certainly be very true decades ago. Talons of Weng Chiang is the most obvious example, but there are others. And, as has been pointed out, the RTD era was actually very good about showing equal representation, at least in terms of black people. Not living in England, I honestly have no idea whether other minorities are not being equally and fairly represented, but in terms of black representation, I have absolutely no complaints. (Compare to an American show, say, Friends, which took place in New York City, for God's sakes, but had about 99% white people - awful, just awful.)

Now, as for sexism in Doctor Who - that's a different story entirely. There's an issue that BBC and Moffat should really do some soul-searching about.....
Ubik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 28 2013, 03:01 PM   #67
Admiral Buzzkill
Fleet Admiral
 
Re: Doctor Who accused of racism

She says an episode in 2007 had the Doctor speaking dismissively of Martha's fears that she would be sold into slavery as the two characters visited Elizabethan England.
The Doctor tells her to "walk about like you own the place. It works for me."
The author claims the comment "betrays the ignorance of writers about historical racial violence and contemporary white privilege".

Well now, that's a good point.
Admiral Buzzkill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 28 2013, 03:12 PM   #68
Tom
Rear Admiral
 
Tom's Avatar
 
Location: In your Mind!
Re: Doctor Who accused of racism

Racism? are you kidding me? Micky is the only one I can think of who has banged 2 of the Doctor's companions (Rose & Martha) LOL. Martha was a medical student who did become a doctor, unlike shop girl Rose, temp Donna, stripagram Amy and nanny Clara. It was almost reverse racism when RTD constantly displayed most couples at interracial or gay.
__________________
AP - Star Trek: Renegades - Starring Walter Koenig, Tim Russ, Robert Picardo, Sean Young & many more - Coming 2014 - www.startrekrenegades.com
https://www.facebook.com/STRtheSeries
Tom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 28 2013, 03:22 PM   #69
Ubik
Commodore
 
Re: Doctor Who accused of racism

Admiral Buzzkill wrote: View Post
She says an episode in 2007 had the Doctor speaking dismissively of Martha's fears that she would be sold into slavery as the two characters visited Elizabethan England.
The Doctor tells her to "walk about like you own the place. It works for me."
The author claims the comment "betrays the ignorance of writers about historical racial violence and contemporary white privilege".

Well now, that's a good point.
I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not, but it is actually a good point. A black writer would not have given the white Doctor that line to say to a black companion, and a black Doctor could not have said it. (In fact, come to think of it, a black Doctor couldn't even enter the vast majority of Earth's time periods that he does and act like the leader he always does - he wouldn't have that freedom. The people from those time periods would never treat him the same way. Perhaps that's why they're avoiding making the Doctor black - because it would force the writers to deal with real-life racial politics in a way that makes them uncomfortable. This time travel show would finally be forced to present the past as it actually was, and not as the white guy's fantasy it often has been depicted as.)
Ubik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 28 2013, 04:41 PM   #70
Mr. Adventure
Admiral
 
Mr. Adventure's Avatar
 
Location: Mr. Adventure
Re: Doctor Who accused of racism

Admiral Buzzkill wrote: View Post
She says an episode in 2007 had the Doctor speaking dismissively of Martha's fears that she would be sold into slavery as the two characters visited Elizabethan England.
The Doctor tells her to "walk about like you own the place. It works for me."
The author claims the comment "betrays the ignorance of writers about historical racial violence and contemporary white privilege".

Well now, that's a good point.
Though it does seem like a response one would expect from the Doctor and the writer didn't ignore the issue altogether. It didn't seem too out of place in an episode where no one bats an eye at a woman wearing a tank top, a leather jacket, jeans and big hoop earrings.
Mr. Adventure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 28 2013, 04:44 PM   #71
JoeZhang
Vice Admiral
 
JoeZhang's Avatar
 
Re: Doctor Who accused of racism

Ubik wrote: View Post


Anyway, the attack of racism on Doctor Who would certainly be very true decades ago. Talons of Weng Chiang is the most obvious example, but there are others.
There is worse than that, The Ark has some dreadful colonial racist politics underpinning it and The Celestial Toymaker is just straight forward racist with its caricature of the Chinese and Micheal Gough hamming it up with his yellowface speech patterns plus the use of a version of Eenie Meenie Miney Moe that was problematic even during that time-period given what was happening with Civil Rights in the US.
JoeZhang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 28 2013, 04:58 PM   #72
Irvy
Commander
 
Location: N Ireland
Re: Doctor Who accused of racism

I think people missed my point. Doctor Who, and television entertainment in general, should not be an exercise in political correctness, it shouldn't be turn taking, and we shouldn't be sitting working out what percentage of the characters are what. This is supposed to be entertainment, the telling of a compelling story by people experienced in doing so, on either side of the camera.

It's like fair employment. A person should not get a job, or be denied a job, simply because of quotas of "how many of your sort we already have".

Take Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS as an example. Yay, we have 3 black brothers running their own business. But can the actors act? Hell no, they were awful. They weren't awful because they were black, they were awful because they were bad actors.
Irvy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 28 2013, 04:58 PM   #73
Turbo
Vice Admiral
 
Turbo's Avatar
 
Location: Atlanta
View Turbo's Twitter Profile Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to Turbo
Re: Doctor Who accused of racism

JoeZhang wrote: View Post
There is worse than that, The Ark has some dreadful colonial racist politics underpinning it and The Celestial Toymaker is just straight forward racist with its caricature of the Chinese and Micheal Gough hamming it up with his yellowface speech patterns plus the use of a version of Eenie Meenie Miney Moe that was problematic even during that time-period given what was happening with Civil Rights in the US.
Eurgh, I forgot about that. There were some...choice comments on another forum when it somehow came up in a discussion about Jimmy Saville's bit on The Two Doctors.
__________________
Allons-y!
Turbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 28 2013, 05:18 PM   #74
Tora Ziyal
Rear Admiral
 
Tora Ziyal's Avatar
 
Re: Doctor Who accused of racism

sttngfan1701d wrote: View Post
Tora Ziyal wrote: View Post
^ Yes, that would be good.

And I like the term "uber-positives." There are a bunch of them in cancer-land, too.
Positive is better than negative, but for every picture I see of someone in a wheelchair visiting the Pyramids or whatever with a caption that says "I can do ANYTHING!", I want to say "Sure, but can you hang Christmas lights on the house or get winter clothes down from the attic?"

They hate me.
I'll bet they do. I spent only two months using a wheelchair, but those two months were quite... enlightening. Both because of things that were said (or not said) to me, and because I started paying more attention to how people talk about their own disabilities.

Ubik wrote: View Post
Maestro wrote: View Post
The book was written by a consortium of 23 academics and bloggers, primarily Americans, partially Australian, and with only a few Brits. The fact that a bunch of non-British folks are bitching about a British show lends them precious little credibility to begin with. Add to that that they're academics and feminist issue bloggers, I just really don't think the book should be taken seriously.

If they wanted to bitch about NCIS being racist, by all means, but Doctor Who? Sorry, not your country folks. STFU/GTFO.
Just to clarify: your argument is that "academics" ought never to be taken seriously? Is that your real opinion? Not only is that an ad hominem fallacy, but it's a damned bizarre one. Martin Luther King Jr. was an academic. Most of the major movers and shakers in the feminist movement of the 70's (a movement that every woman on this BBS board is living the fruits of) were academics, and "feminist issue" people. The people who are (hopefully) eventually going to save this planet from climate change extinction are going to be academics. Since this is primarily a science fiction board, allow me to point out that many of the best science fiction authors of all time were / are academics. I'm just saying - it was a very strange comment for you to make. (Perhaps I misunderstood?)
Tora Ziyal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 28 2013, 05:18 PM   #75
Mr. Adventure
Admiral
 
Mr. Adventure's Avatar
 
Location: Mr. Adventure
Re: Doctor Who accused of racism

Irvy wrote: View Post
Take Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS as an example. Yay, we have 3 black brothers running their own business. But can the actors act? Hell no, they were awful. They weren't awful because they were black, they were awful because they were bad actors.
I guess one of the hard things about stuff like this is people see different things. You see three black brothers running a business but I couldn't help watching it thinking it was unfortunately suggestive that they were running a chop shop.
Mr. Adventure is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:19 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.