RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 138,371
Posts: 5,356,508
Members: 24,625
Currently online: 704
Newest member: 3d gird

TrekToday headlines

The Gene Roddenberry Project Kickstarter
By: T'Bonz on Jul 30

Moore: No Deep Space Nine Regrets
By: T'Bonz on Jul 30

Pegg Star Wars Rumor
By: T'Bonz on Jul 30

Borg Cube Fridge
By: T'Bonz on Jul 29

Free Enterprise Kickstarter
By: T'Bonz on Jul 29

Siddig To Join Game Of Thrones
By: T'Bonz on Jul 29

Sci-Fried To Release New Album
By: T'Bonz on Jul 28

Star Trek/Planet of the Apes Crossover
By: T'Bonz on Jul 28

Star Trek into Darkness Soundtrack
By: T'Bonz on Jul 28

Horse 1, Shatner 0
By: T'Bonz on Jul 28


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old May 21 2013, 12:17 AM   #1
davejames
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Sac, Ca
The world-building of this new Trek universe

As much as I absolutely loved the first movie (the sequel, a bit less so), the one thing I'm really having a problem with is the lack of any internal logic or understandable continuity with this new universe, and what that portends for the future.

Hell, this isn't so much an "alternate timeline" as an alternate fantasy world. Just for starters we’ve got:

- Starships that can seemingly traverse the galaxy in minutes
- The ability to beam to far-off distant planets, or onto ships travelling at warp
- 23rd century humans that still talk and act exactly like they're from the 20th
- Starships with massive engineering rooms and shuttlebays that are completely out of scale with the rest of the ship
- The Enterprise encountering things from deep space (like the Gorn, evil Gary Mitchell, Tribbles, etc) long before they've even set out on their 5-year mission


Anyone else just having a really hard time getting their head around how this new universe works? Because as fun as the movies are, I'm not sure they're building a very believable world here, and I'm wondering how the heck they'll ever make sense of it for the next TV series...
davejames is online now   Reply With Quote
Old May 21 2013, 12:22 AM   #2
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: The world-building of this new Trek universe

davejames wrote: View Post

Anyone else just having a really hard time getting their head around how this new universe works?
No.

Nothing that has been in these films is any more off-the-wall or unbelievable than what Trek has presented in the past.
__________________
"I had no idea you were so... formidable. " - Anan 7 to James T. Kirk, A Taste of Armageddon
BillJ is online now   Reply With Quote
Old May 21 2013, 12:29 AM   #3
RAMA
Vice Admiral
 
RAMA's Avatar
 
Location: NJ, USA
Re: The world-building of this new Trek universe

Nope, dont see any problems there. This is a parallel but different timeline. Some things can be closer than others all at the definable quality of the writers, that's why they diverged the timelines in the first place. Therefore it doesnt matter WHEN the Gorn appeared before, they already appeared here, same with Mudd.

Warp speed: It's always been definable by the writers...they went warp 14 in TOS, redefined the scale for STNG, but they can use any method they choose to define it in the JJ universe. Its not unprecedented, other SF universes on film and literature have traveled as fast.

As Christopher already pointed out on the Lit forum, ST has already had technology like the transwarp transporter, it just took too much power to use regularly.

I have a greater problem with the culture not being as different from us as it should be, but in this context all it means is that it's more easily identifiable to audiences, and so succeeds in bringing more people in to watch the movie. Perfectly reasonable as it's Hollywood entertainment.

The fact that YOU (and some others) are having problems with it is that you are all impressing them on the movie, when you shouldn't be.

RAMA
__________________
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. Carl Sagan
RAMA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 21 2013, 12:44 AM   #4
davejames
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Sac, Ca
Re: The world-building of this new Trek universe

I understand the different timeline (and the idea that Nero's arrival probably sped certain developments up), but I would still expect warp speed to operate in the same basic way, and for their technology to at least have some believable limits.

Or for established aliens and alien planets to still be in the same basic place and look the same basic way (although I guess we can just assume these Klingons are yet another race or evolutionary branch from the rest).
davejames is online now   Reply With Quote
Old May 21 2013, 12:50 AM   #5
RAMA
Vice Admiral
 
RAMA's Avatar
 
Location: NJ, USA
Re: The world-building of this new Trek universe

davejames wrote: View Post
I understand the different timeline (and the idea that Nero's arrival probably sped certain developments up), but I would still expect warp speed to operate in the same basic way, and for their technology to at least have some believable limits.

Or for established aliens and alien planets to still be in the same basic place and look the same basic way (although I guess we can just assume these Klingons are yet another race or evolutionary branch from the rest).

Again, warp has always been definable by the writers and plots. It was only set at STNG's scale because they chose to spell it out. They could just have easily said they used slipstream drive, or transwarp drive, or wormholes. Since warp isnt even possible as far as we know, any form of warp is probably as believable as any other.

On a technical level, any other universe that exists is going to have a totally new set of physical laws anyway. Our physical laws only apply here.
__________________
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. Carl Sagan
RAMA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 21 2013, 12:57 AM   #6
Kpnuts
Commodore
 
Kpnuts's Avatar
 
Location: London
Re: The world-building of this new Trek universe

I guess the only two head-scratchers for me are the ridiculously fast warp speed and the transporters (more because of the total inconsistency from situation to situation than the transwarp beaming). For the record I love both movies, and am really enjoying this nuTrek.
Kpnuts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 21 2013, 12:59 AM   #7
Patrickivan
Fleet Captain
 
Patrickivan's Avatar
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
Re: The world-building of this new Trek universe

davejames wrote: View Post
As much as I absolutely loved the first movie (the sequel, a bit less so), the one thing I'm really having a problem with is the lack of any internal logic or understandable continuity with this new universe, and what that portends for the future.

Hell, this isn't so much an "alternate timeline" as an alternate fantasy world. Just for starters we’ve got:

- Starships that can seemingly traverse the galaxy in minutes
- The ability to beam to far-off distant planets, or onto ships travelling at warp
- 23rd century humans that still talk and act exactly like they're from the 20th
- Starships with massive engineering rooms and shuttlebays that are completely out of scale with the rest of the ship
- The Enterprise encountering things from deep space (like the Gorn, evil Gary Mitchell, Tribbles, etc) long before they've even set out on their 5-year mission


Anyone else just having a really hard time getting their head around how this new universe works? Because as fun as the movies are, I'm not sure they're building a very believable world here, and I'm wondering how the heck they'll ever make sense of it for the next TV series...
I won't say I have a problem with it, but I completely understand where you're coming from here...

JJ and company had no desire to continue the stories in the Star Trek universe. They made a fun movie to make money and that's okay.

When I watch new trek, I pretty much just ignore old Trek because it just doesn't work with new trek- alternate universe or not.

I like my old Trek (well, not ALL of it), but I like new Trek as well- as long as I don't try to pigeon hole it into the Star Trek universe and continuity (as loose as that is).

Just enjoy it as a good movie or not.
__________________
http://patrickivan.wordpress.com/page/2/

40 Years and ticking. Damn, that's too old fashioned.
40 years and still processing!
Patrickivan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 21 2013, 01:02 AM   #8
The Keeper
Commodore
 
The Keeper's Avatar
 
Location: Where reality ends and illusion begins
Re: The world-building of this new Trek universe

It's a reboot.

Someone is bound to bring up the FACT it ties back to the Original universe/timeline, whatever... Forget it. That was just a widget to tease us into going along with them. Now, anything goes.

The trick to getting your head around how this new universe works is to stop comparing it to how the old one did!!1one!
The Keeper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 21 2013, 01:08 AM   #9
sj4iy
Commander
 
sj4iy's Avatar
 
Location: US
Re: The world-building of this new Trek universe

davejames wrote: View Post
As much as I absolutely loved the first movie (the sequel, a bit less so), the one thing I'm really having a problem with is the lack of any internal logic or understandable continuity with this new universe, and what that portends for the future.

Hell, this isn't so much an "alternate timeline" as an alternate fantasy world. Just for starters we’ve got:

- Starships that can seemingly traverse the galaxy in minutes
- The ability to beam to far-off distant planets, or onto ships travelling at warp
- 23rd century humans that still talk and act exactly like they're from the 20th
- Starships with massive engineering rooms and shuttlebays that are completely out of scale with the rest of the ship
- The Enterprise encountering things from deep space (like the Gorn, evil Gary Mitchell, Tribbles, etc) long before they've even set out on their 5-year mission


Anyone else just having a really hard time getting their head around how this new universe works? Because as fun as the movies are, I'm not sure they're building a very believable world here, and I'm wondering how the heck they'll ever make sense of it for the next TV series...
Just thought I'd clarify that the ORIGINAL Star Trek is indeed a fantasy world, as well, and nothing had to make sense then for people to accept it.
sj4iy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 21 2013, 02:07 AM   #10
davejames
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Sac, Ca
Re: The world-building of this new Trek universe

sj4iy wrote: View Post
Just thought I'd clarify that the ORIGINAL Star Trek is indeed a fantasy world, as well, and nothing had to make sense then for people to accept it.
But that's the thing, it actually DID make some kind of sense before-- which is why fans have embraced the Trek universe and kept it going for so many years.

Even in a world of starships and transporters and green-skinned alien women, there were certain rules and a basic, underlying believability to the whole thing that I'm just not feeling with this new universe at all.

Hell, why even bother going on a 5-year mission anymore? From what we've seen, you could basically travel to the other side of the galaxy in a couple of days now!
davejames is online now   Reply With Quote
Old May 21 2013, 02:37 AM   #11
Admiral Buzzkill
Fleet Admiral
 
Re: The world-building of this new Trek universe

davejames wrote: View Post

Anyone else just having a really hard time getting their head around how this new universe works?
No.
Admiral Buzzkill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 21 2013, 02:39 AM   #12
The Keeper
Commodore
 
The Keeper's Avatar
 
Location: Where reality ends and illusion begins
Re: The world-building of this new Trek universe

davejames, it's only different in your head. Neither way is technically "correct" because it's all fiction.

The Prime has its rules and the Nu has its versions. Done. Now, instead of bemoaning what you feel you have lost try considering potential benefits of the Nu rules...

For example. Regarding the 5 year mission, the stakes are now raised, (assuming they remain true to their own rules.) Given the new speeds half or more the Galaxy is now open to exploration during that time rather than just a tiny corner. See how the Universe just got a whole lot smaller? I think it's neat. The scope of the Star Trek Universe is now bigger than ever! Heck travels to other galaxy's are now easily possible.
The Keeper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 21 2013, 09:22 AM   #13
King Daniel Into Darkness
Admiral
 
King Daniel Into Darkness's Avatar
 
Location: England again
Re: The world-building of this new Trek universe

davejames wrote: View Post
As much as I absolutely loved the first movie (the sequel, a bit less so), the one thing I'm really having a problem with is the lack of any internal logic or understandable continuity with this new universe, and what that portends for the future.

Hell, this isn't so much an "alternate timeline" as an alternate fantasy world. Just for starters we’ve got:

- Starships that can seemingly traverse the galaxy in minutes
Watch the Original Series, the Animated Series and the old movies. They visited the rim of the galaxy ("Where No Man..."), the centre of the galaxy twice ("Magicks of Megas-Tu", STV: The Final Frontier) and in "By Any Other Name", covered 1000 light years in 12 hours at warp 8.4.
DS9 reached any Alpha/Beta Quadrant world by Runabout in the space of a scene break. Enterprise NX-01 reached Kronos in no time at warp 5.
- The ability to beam to far-off distant planets, or onto ships travelling at warp
Numerous aliens did this in TOS, Starfleet and Ferengi were shown to have the ability in TNG "Bloodlines" and the Dominion did it throughout Deep Space Nine.
- 23rd century humans that still talk and act exactly like they're from the 20th
This was true of Star Trek: The Original Series. It was only after TOS became huge in re-runs that Roddenberry's talk of an evolved humanity began, on the collage lecture circuit.
- Starships with massive engineering rooms and shuttlebays that are completely out of scale with the rest of the ship
This Enterprise is far bigger, 725m instead of the original's 289. Engineering and the shuttlebay fit inside just fine.
- The Enterprise encountering things from deep space (like the Gorn, evil Gary Mitchell, Tribbles, etc) long before they've even set out on their 5-year mission
People said the same about Enterprise. Phlox used tribbles to feed his pets in sickbay.

Anyone else just having a really hard time getting their head around how this new universe works? Because as fun as the movies are, I'm not sure they're building a very believable world here, and I'm wondering how the heck they'll ever make sense of it for the next TV series...
It works just the same as the old one, as far as I can tell, but with bigger ships, a much greater emphasis on the way the original did things and cherry picked some stuff from the spin offs.
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
King Daniel Into Darkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 24 2013, 06:28 PM   #14
FKnight
Commander
 
FKnight's Avatar
 
Re: The world-building of this new Trek universe

The old school Trekker in me is ok believing that Nero came back in time from the future of a universe that was already separate from that of TOS/etc, chronologically prior to STXI.

As far as nuTrek, I can take it or leave it and I still enjoy classic Trek ('classic' meaning TOS/TNG/DS9/VOY). I like the fact that classic Trek had a somewhat consistent (within reason) continuity. At the same time, though, I really like being able to see a different take on characters, stories, and the universe from a Star Trek perspective.

I like reading TNG era books and I'm disappointed that, at present, it's not likely we'll see anything on the TV screen set in the prime universe, but it's still really cool to imagine and see on the big screen what perhaps Star Trek might look like in another universe within the vast Trek multiverse.

To be honest, I'd even like to see some kind of Star Trek movie production based on the Starfleet Universe continuity.
__________________
"You have been examined. Your ship must be destroyed. We make assumption you have a deity, or deities, or some such beliefs which comfort you. We therefore grant you ten Earth time periods known as minutes to make preparations."
FKnight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 24 2013, 07:19 PM   #15
Norsehound
Lieutenant Junior Grade
 
Re: The world-building of this new Trek universe

Seconded on the Starfleet Universe continuity, though I doubt we'll ever see anything like that because it's too militaristic for the TNG fans. :P

I accept completely that the new trek series is writing a new Star Trek canon. All the names are there and the characters act similarly but the universe has changed and things are done differently now. I find it refreshing and want more!
Norsehound is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:53 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.