RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,637
Posts: 5,427,639
Members: 24,810
Currently online: 505
Newest member: Rom

TrekToday headlines

Trek Messenger Bag
By: T'Bonz on Sep 18

Star Trek Live In Concert In Australia
By: T'Bonz on Sep 18

IDW Publishing December Trek Comics
By: T'Bonz on Sep 17

September Loot Crate Features Trek Surprise
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

USS Enterprise Miniature Out For Refit
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

Star Trek/Planet of the Apes Comic Crossover
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

Trek 3 Shooting Next Spring?
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

Star Trek: Alien Domain Game Announced
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Red Shirt Diaries Episode Three
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Made Out Of Mudd Photonovel
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Star Trek - Original Series

Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old May 26 2013, 03:32 AM   #1
marsomthing
Lieutenant Junior Grade
 
The naked time

So this is by far my favorite episode.... This week that is. I think it blends dealing with disease spreading over the enterprise with a totally separate issue with the planet bring the ship down. I think it makes for a great episode.

One thing has always puzzled me tho....

When they go back in time the three days... What happens? Do they just hang low and wait three days to pass... go back and save the crewman that died?

Why not go back and Prevent the whole problems in the first place
marsomthing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 26 2013, 04:00 AM   #2
Praetor Baldric
Lieutenant Commander
 
Re: The naked time

I don't think they can go back and save the crewman who died because they haven't really time traveled in the sense that I think you mean. Otherwise, wouldn't there now be two of the Enterprise and crew existing on the same timeline? I think we need a physics enthusiast to weigh in on this one.
Praetor Baldric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 26 2013, 04:04 AM   #3
ZapBrannigan
Fleet Captain
 
ZapBrannigan's Avatar
 
Location: New York State
Re: The naked time

When they went back three days, they seemed to go in a bubble that took all their problems with them. Joe Tormolin was still dead. And they can't really prevent the problems that occurred (damage to the warp engines, hangovers...) because that all went back with them too.

They went back in time from the universe's point of view, but kept all the bad experienced they'd just had. It's not what you have in mind when bad things happen and you wish you could go back.

"Otherwise, wouldn't there now be two of the Enterprise and crew existing on the same timeline?"

Right! When the Enterprise went back in time, it would suddenly appear in its "experienced" state and disappear from where it was the first time around. That ship would vanish. And yet that wipes out the having of the intoxicating experiences at Psi 2000 which the crew remembers. So it's a paradox.
ZapBrannigan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 26 2013, 04:15 AM   #4
marsomthing
Lieutenant Junior Grade
 
Re: The naked time

That's the same thoughts I had on the time travel, where is the 2nd enterprise when they go back thing.

So it's not the same time travel as Tomorrow is yesterday, or the voyage home? What makes the difference other than what the writer says us different?

Am I on the right track?

Haha I just caught the left with "hangover" comment!!!
marsomthing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 26 2013, 02:23 PM   #5
ToddPence
Fleet Captain
 
ToddPence's Avatar
 
Location: Fairfax, VA
Re: The naked time

The novel "Present Tense" was supposed to be a direct sequel to "The Naked Time". The premise of that book was that the Enterprise was heading to a remote part of space to lay low for the three day period in order to avoid meeting themselves.
ToddPence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 26 2013, 02:34 PM   #6
marsomthing
Lieutenant Junior Grade
 
Re: The naked time

ToddPence wrote: View Post
The novel "Present Tense" was supposed to be a direct sequel to "The Naked Time". The premise of that book was that the Enterprise was heading to a remote part of space to lay low for the three day period in order to avoid meeting themselves.
Are you talking about the 3 part series, book one the janus gate?

I looked up the book and the summary doesn't really mention anything like " after being thrown back 3 days". I'm not saying your wrong because I have no clue. Just curious.
marsomthing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 26 2013, 05:45 PM   #7
Metryq
Captain
 
Metryq's Avatar
 
Re: The naked time

ZapBrannigan wrote: View Post
When the Enterprise went back in time, it would suddenly appear in its "experienced" state and disappear from where it was the first time around. That ship would vanish.
No, but meeting up with themselves would have been a paradox since it did not happen "the first time around." And that's the real crux of the matter, and where many people (including authors) get tangled up in time travel stories. The events of the universe do not "happen again" just because a time traveler folds back over his own path. As Doc Brown said, "You're not thinking fourth dimensionally."

(The only way to have the Enterprise meet up with itself and lead to a different chain of events without it being a paradox is to invoke a multi-verse. This is the flaw in BACK TO THE FUTURE—Marty interfered with known events multiple times, which means he could not have known about them and the need to "correct" them. That's a paradox. So BTTF must be a multi-verse... but then nothing any Marty in any universe did could lead to the one on stage playing guitar to vanish. Double flaw. Meanwhile, BTTF2 had a pair'o'docs handing himself a wrench.)

"Tomorrow Is Yesterday" does not work no matter how you slice it, while "Assignment Earth" is a perfect example of a reflexive causality—meaning the Enterprise did not "change" anything, as they were a part of that history. They simply didn't know it going in.
__________________
"No, I better not look. I just might be in there."
—Foghorn Leghorn, Little Boy Boo
Metryq is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 26 2013, 06:35 PM   #8
ZapBrannigan
Fleet Captain
 
ZapBrannigan's Avatar
 
Location: New York State
Re: The naked time

Metryq wrote: View Post
ZapBrannigan wrote: View Post
When the Enterprise went back in time, it would suddenly appear in its "experienced" state and disappear from where it was the first time around. That ship would vanish.
No, but meeting up with themselves would have been a paradox since it did not happen "the first time around." And that's the real crux of the matter, and where many people (including authors) get tangled up in time travel stories. The events of the universe do not "happen again" just because a time traveler folds back over his own path. As Doc Brown said, "You're not thinking fourth dimensionally."

(The only way to have the Enterprise meet up with itself and lead to a different chain of events without it being a paradox is to invoke a multi-verse. This is the flaw in BACK TO THE FUTURE—Marty interfered with known events multiple times, which means he could not have known about them and the need to "correct" them. That's a paradox. So BTTF must be a multi-verse... but then nothing any Marty in any universe did could lead to the one on stage playing guitar to vanish. Double flaw. Meanwhile, BTTF2 had a pair'o'docs handing himself a wrench.)

"Tomorrow Is Yesterday" does not work no matter how you slice it, while "Assignment Earth" is a perfect example of a reflexive causality—meaning the Enterprise did not "change" anything, as they were a part of that history. They simply didn't know it going in.
Well, the Enterprise went back three days, arriving at a different physical location than it was at three days ago, and there weren't two Enterprises (suddenly having two would violate the conservation of matter).

So I figure that when the Enterprise goes back in time, the first-time-around ship must vanish from that location (from an outsider observer's POV). It's really the same ship, not vanishing but skipping over part of the timeline and getting instantly to where the ship now appears.

I don't mean to say that this works as a solid theory.

Last edited by ZapBrannigan; May 26 2013 at 06:45 PM.
ZapBrannigan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 26 2013, 09:29 PM   #9
Metryq
Captain
 
Metryq's Avatar
 
Re: The naked time

ZapBrannigan wrote: View Post
suddenly having two would violate the conservation of matter
Ah, is time travel possible? That's a totally different argument, which I did not address, accepting it as a given in the story. As shown on screen, the episode does not invoke any paradoxes, but I addressed paradoxes because of the original post.

So I figure that when the Enterprise goes back in time, the first-time-around ship must vanish from that location ... skipping over part of the timeline and getting instantly to where the ship now appears.
And that would be a paradox because then the "inexperienced" Enterprise would not be there to undergo the events that led to the engine implosion and time displacement.

Just for the record, some sci-fi authors try to slide around causality by invoking quantum mechanics (e.g. Orson Scott Card's PASTWATCH). And QM is a form of magic accepted by most contemporary physicists. Working from the assumption that time is broken down into quanta like the frames of a film, a paradox can happen from the point of time displacement forward—basically, an effect pops out of nowhere with no cause, as the paradox erases its cause. But by this "logic," causality ceases to have any meaning, and so the paradox becomes a paradox. (Again, magic. It happened that way just because the author wanted it to happen that way, and audiences accept it because it is "scientific.")

Look up Klein bottle—that is the shape of time (or at least some topologists use it as a bong). That is what the mythical "outside observer" would see, like a projectionist with a reel of film. The reel contains all events from start to finish; the events do not "happen" to the outside observer. That history simply "is."

And conservation laws are a philosophical construct. As with many other notions in science, they cannot be proven, but we accept them until such time as they might be falsified.
__________________
"No, I better not look. I just might be in there."
—Foghorn Leghorn, Little Boy Boo
Metryq is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 26 2013, 10:39 PM   #10
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: The naked time

Great episode, but the time travel makes no sense. It should've been cut when they decided not to link the episode with Tomorrow is Yesterday.
__________________
"I tell you what you all need, you need to take a thirteenth step, down off your high horse." - Hank Hill, King of the Hill
BillJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 27 2013, 02:45 AM   #11
marsomthing
Lieutenant Junior Grade
 
Re: The naked time

BillJ wrote: View Post
Great episode, but the time travel makes no sense. It should've been cut when they decided not to link the episode with Tomorrow is Yesterday.
Link them?!?!? Was the original plan to have them thrown back into the beginning of tomorrow is yesterday?!?! Where did you see that?
marsomthing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 27 2013, 02:50 AM   #12
ToddPence
Fleet Captain
 
ToddPence's Avatar
 
Location: Fairfax, VA
Re: The naked time

marsomthing wrote: View Post

Are you talking about the 3 part series, book one the janus gate?
Yes. That's the one.
ToddPence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 27 2013, 03:02 AM   #13
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: The naked time

marsomthing wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Great episode, but the time travel makes no sense. It should've been cut when they decided not to link the episode with Tomorrow is Yesterday.
Link them?!?!? Was the original plan to have them thrown back into the beginning of tomorrow is yesterday?!?! Where did you see that?
It's been around for years. Maybe Harvey can chime in with better details (and if its true).
__________________
"I tell you what you all need, you need to take a thirteenth step, down off your high horse." - Hank Hill, King of the Hill
BillJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 27 2013, 04:35 AM   #14
GSchnitzer
Co-Executive Producer
 
GSchnitzer's Avatar
 
Location: Gaithersburg, Maryland, USA, Terra
Send a message via AIM to GSchnitzer Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to GSchnitzer Send a message via Yahoo to GSchnitzer
Re: The naked time

BillJ wrote: View Post
marsomthing wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Great episode, but the time travel makes no sense. It should've been cut when they decided not to link the episode with Tomorrow is Yesterday.
Link them?!?!? Was the original plan to have them thrown back into the beginning of tomorrow is yesterday?!?! Where did you see that?
It's been around for years. Maybe Harvey can chime in with better details (and if its true).
A bit more information is at:

http://www.fastcopyinc.com/orionpres.../nakedtime.htm

The key points are that the shooting script for "The Naked Time" is actually called "The Naked Time (Part 1)"

And when asked what course to plot for the slingshot effect, the line in the script is: "Doesn't matter...the way we came...toward Earth." (The aired episode just says "Doesn't matter...the way we came.")
__________________
Greg Schnitzer
Co-Executive Producer
Star Trek Phase II
http://www.startrekphase2.com
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3348883/
GSchnitzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 27 2013, 06:39 AM   #15
Harvey
Admiral
 
Harvey's Avatar
 
Re: The naked time

It seems true, although I never transcribed any documents related to "The Naked Time." The Orion Press website is very reliable when it comes to their episode changes page.
__________________
"This begs explanation." - de Forest Research on Star Trek

My blog: Star Trek Fact Check.
Harvey is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:53 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.