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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old May 28 2013, 08:47 PM   #61
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Re: RLM - Half in the Bag does STID [SPOILERS]

M'Sharak wrote: View Post

One thing: while several here and on other forums may early on have suggested Javier Bardem's as a possible Khan, I can't recall reading any serious reports that he'd been in consideration by the filmmakers at any point for any role in what became ST Into Darkness.
That and it seems he would've been playing much the same character he played in Skyfall.
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Old May 28 2013, 10:07 PM   #62
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Re: RLM - Half in the Bag does STID [SPOILERS]

I liked the review.

I think the two-part review on Star Trek (2009) was more informative to the changes made for this next generation of Star Trek. Everything is hyper now.
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Old May 28 2013, 10:16 PM   #63
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Re: RLM - Half in the Bag does STID [SPOILERS]

BillJ wrote: View Post
TheCutestofBorg wrote: View Post
It IS Star Trek: Fast and Furious. The plot made no sense and has as much substance as the Transformer movies. Which is none.
It makes about as much sense as a 20th century human being able to run a starship in a few hours, magical terraforming technology, that Khan would search everywhere but the transporter room on Regula One or the fact that Khan could find and locate the Genesis torpedo but didn't beam Kirk up from Regula and kill him.
You're right, none of that makes sense. So you're agreeing that STID makes no sense, right?
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Old May 28 2013, 10:16 PM   #64
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Re: RLM - Half in the Bag does STID [SPOILERS]

You know, I've been making all these points about TWOK for years, and people just responded as if I was a little nutty. (Not that they were wrong, mind.) Funny thing, it's still probably my favorite Trek film.

It just drives me nuts when people act like it's some cinematic masterpiece and Nick Meyer could do know wrong. He wrote the thing in a week; it's obvious.

Furthermore, I could say something like :"The film has TONS of logical problems. But so what? It's hugely entertaining." Which one am I talking about?
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Old May 28 2013, 10:18 PM   #65
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Re: RLM - Half in the Bag does STID [SPOILERS]

Tom Servo wrote: View Post
If you're willing to overlook that, but not some of the plot conveniences and issues with the Abrams films, they you're just a hypocrite.
Let's all agree that every Star Trek movie, episode, novel, comic etc is a bag of shit.
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Old May 28 2013, 10:19 PM   #66
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Re: RLM - Half in the Bag does STID [SPOILERS]

CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
Furthermore, I could say something like :"The film has TONS of logical problems. But so what? It's hugely entertaining." Which one am I talking about?
Showgirls?
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Old May 28 2013, 10:21 PM   #67
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Re: RLM - Half in the Bag does STID [SPOILERS]

Shazam! wrote: View Post

You're right, none of that makes sense. So you're agreeing that STID makes no sense, right?
I'm saying it makes no less sense than The Wrath of Khan generally. In other posts I've admitted that it has story issues. I love TWOK, I love Star Trek Into Darkness.
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Old May 28 2013, 10:26 PM   #68
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Re: RLM - Half in the Bag does STID [SPOILERS]

Shazam! wrote: View Post
Showgirls?
Showgirls wasn't entertaining.
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Old May 28 2013, 11:17 PM   #69
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Re: RLM - Half in the Bag does STID [SPOILERS]

BillJ wrote: View Post
It makes about as much sense as a 20th century human being able to run a starship in a few hours, magical terraforming technology, that Khan would search everywhere but the transporter room on Regula One or the fact that Khan could find and locate the Genesis torpedo but didn't beam Kirk up from Regula and kill him.
Well, while I don't agree that Into Darkness is as shallow as some people are saying, and it certainly has it's flaws, i'm going to stand up for TWOK here with equal footing.

Outside of the Genesis device, which is simply a matter of saying it is a science beyond our current understanding, Khan being able to run a starship "in a matter of hours" is not that far off base. Remember he studied the Enterprise technical manuals and database in Space Seed. He probably only needed to reacquaint himself once he was on Reliant. The basics wouldn't have changed.

As indicated in TWOK, he never "made it down" there because of the timing situation.

He didn't beam Kirk up and kill him because, well, his revenge on Kirk was slow death. With the Enterprise destroyed there would be no reason for anyone to look for Kirk. They'd presume he and everyone else was on the Enterprise when it was destroyed. That was Khan's plan all along, and he made that clear. He wanted to hurt Kirk, not kill him.


Ceti Alpha VI just one day deciding to explode randomly... Now that... That's just stupid.
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Old May 28 2013, 11:32 PM   #70
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Re: RLM - Half in the Bag does STID [SPOILERS]

Khan has to be dumb because the script calls for him to be dumb.

*Where exactly did he think the rest of the Regula One people went? Where did he think Genesis went? Khan didn't ask Terrell or Chekov how the rest of the Regula One crew might have escaped? He knows there's a Carol Marcus yet there isn't one when he arrived.

*Khan says in Space Seed that he would need help to run a starship. Yes he's smart but he only has like twelve people. Plus the technology is completely different than what he experienced when on the Enterprise.

*And Khan didn't need to go down to get Kirk, he could have simply beamed him up.

The Wrath of Khan is a hell of a movie. But the story is flawed, like pretty much every Trek movie story.
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Old May 29 2013, 12:01 AM   #71
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Re: RLM - Half in the Bag does STID [SPOILERS]

BillJ wrote: View Post
Khan has to be dumb because the script calls for him to be dumb.
All throughout TWOK there are indications that Khan is not exactly of sound judgement. 15 years of Hell would do that. It's less him being stupid, and more him being driven by a rage and a compulsion for revenge that is clouding his judgement.

BillJ wrote: View Post
*Where exactly did he think the rest of the Regula One people went? Where did he think Genesis went? Khan didn't ask Terrell or Chekov how the rest of the Regula One crew might have escaped? He knows there's a Carol Marcus yet there isn't one when he arrived.
He may not have known Regula One even had a transporter, and he was pressed for time. He tortured and murdered everyone in a fury when his questions were not answered.

BillJ wrote: View Post
*Khan says in Space Seed that he would need help to run a starship. Yes he's smart but he only has like twelve people. Plus the technology is completely different than what he experienced when on the Enterprise.
And yet in Space Seed he knew the ship well enough to change the settings of key systems. His need of people was likely due to the ships size more than anything. He was more than willing to kill the entire command staff "Each of you will go in there. Die while the others watch!" More likely he just wanted the fastest route to total control, and that could be facilitated by the command staff.

Arguing the technology difference is moot, since a lot of that depends on how you take the visual changes between the TV show sets and the big screen film sets. The technology was very likely not that different in terms of how it was supposed to function.

BillJ wrote: View Post
*And Khan didn't need to go down to get Kirk, he could have simply beamed him up.
I never said he did. I was referring to Khan not going down to the transporter room.

But again, as far as killing Kirk is concerned, he had no intention of doing either because it isn't what he wanted to do in the first place. He wanted Kirk to suffer just as he had suffered. That was his whole motivation. Leave Kirk to rot, destroy the Enterprise, and leave with Genesis. It's incredibly straightforward. You might find flaws in it, sure, but Khan not killing Kirk outright on the moon is not one of them. It's fully addressed in the movie as to why Khan does what he does there.
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Old May 29 2013, 05:05 PM   #72
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Re: RLM - Half in the Bag does STID [SPOILERS]

Shazam! wrote: View Post
Tom Servo wrote: View Post
If you're willing to overlook that, but not some of the plot conveniences and issues with the Abrams films, they you're just a hypocrite.
Let's all agree that every Star Trek movie, episode, novel, comic etc is a bag of shit.
I won't do that, because the argument is that they can still be fun, great, and entertaining movies despite the flaws. The problem is people look at the JJ films, see the flaws in plot or story, proclaim they are stupid, dumb, and not real Star Trek, while the best film of the original cast, is guilty of the exact same sins. It's hypocritical. A person doesn't have to like the new films, but if you're going to come here and rail on them, at least back up your dislike with something that the original show isn't guilty of.
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Old May 29 2013, 07:44 PM   #73
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Re: RLM - Half in the Bag does STID [SPOILERS]

I pose a question here, what is THE "perfect" movie or story or whatever? Something with no plotholes or the like? Does such a thing exist?

Is such a thing possible?
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Old May 29 2013, 07:47 PM   #74
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Re: RLM - Half in the Bag does STID [SPOILERS]

Tokyo Story?

I suppose the safe bet would be Casablanca. I don't think it's the best film ever made, but I doubt you'll ever find a better script.
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Old May 29 2013, 07:50 PM   #75
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Re: RLM - Half in the Bag does STID [SPOILERS]

CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
Tokyo Story?

I suppose the safe bet would be Casablanca. I don't think it's the best film ever made, but I doubt you'll ever find a better script.
What do you mean by safe?
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