RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,668
Posts: 5,429,388
Members: 24,821
Currently online: 421
Newest member: SB118_Laxyn


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old May 26 2013, 06:01 PM   #1
Greg Cox
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Oxford, PA
Kirk and (spoiler) . . . peas in a pod?

I was chatting about the movie with a friend the other day when it occurred to me that Admiral Marcus seems to have revived Khan for pretty much the same reason that Pike recruited Kirk in the prior movie.

Admiral Marcus seems to think that Starfleet has gotten too soft and civilized to protect the Federation from the Klingons and other threats,while Pike saw in Kirk a certain audacity and devil-may-care spirit that he thought 23rd century Starfleet was sorely lacking.

In retrospect, I kinda wish the movie had done more with the idea that both Khan and Kirk are throwbacks of a sort, and that possibly the oh-so-"utopian" world of the Federation may need a Kirk to shake things up . . . but not a Khan?

So how come Pike made right call, but Marcus went too far?

Discuss.
__________________
www.gregcox-author.com
Greg Cox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 26 2013, 06:03 PM   #2
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: Kirk and (spoiler) . . . peas in a pod?

Greg Cox wrote: View Post

So how come Pike made right call, but Marcus went too far?

Discuss.
Kirk is rambunctious and still learning. Khan is evil.
__________________
"I tell you what you all need, you need to take a thirteenth step, down off your high horse." - Hank Hill, King of the Hill

Last edited by M'Sharak; May 26 2013 at 07:44 PM.
BillJ is online now   Reply With Quote
Old May 26 2013, 06:08 PM   #3
Greg Cox
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Oxford, PA
Re: Kirk and (spoiler) . . . peas in a pod?

BillJ wrote: View Post
Greg Cox wrote: View Post

So how come Pike made right call, but Marcus went too far?

Discuss.
Kirk is rambunctious and still learning. Khan is evil.
Well, there is that . . . .
__________________
www.gregcox-author.com

Last edited by M'Sharak; May 26 2013 at 07:44 PM.
Greg Cox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 26 2013, 06:09 PM   #4
The Old Mixer
Vice Admiral
 
The Old Mixer's Avatar
 
Location: Connecticut
Re: Kirk and (spoiler) . . . peas in a pod?

Kirk is reckless and a bit of a narcissist, but wiping out humanity isn't on his agenda....

Last edited by M'Sharak; May 26 2013 at 07:44 PM.
The Old Mixer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 26 2013, 06:13 PM   #5
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: Kirk and (spoiler) . . . peas in a pod?

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Greg Cox wrote: View Post

So how come Pike made right call, but Marcus went too far?

Discuss.
Kirk is rambunctious and still learning. Khan is evil.
Well, there is that . . . .
I was being a bit flip there.

One was recruited to inject a sense of "passion" that was seemingly lacking in Starfleet. The other was recruited against his will to do the bidding of a Starfleet Admiral hellbent on going to war with an edge.

Intent and common-sense is why one made the right call while the other didn't. Kirk doesn't work out, he gets tossed back to a dive in Iowa. Khan doesn't work out and you end up with a genetically enhanced superman on the loose.
__________________
"I tell you what you all need, you need to take a thirteenth step, down off your high horse." - Hank Hill, King of the Hill

Last edited by M'Sharak; May 26 2013 at 07:43 PM.
BillJ is online now   Reply With Quote
Old May 26 2013, 06:17 PM   #6
YellowSubmarine
Rear Admiral
 
YellowSubmarine's Avatar
 
Re: Kirk and (spoiler) . . . peas in a pod?

Pike did not keep Kirk's family hostage.
__________________
R.I.P. Cadet James T. Kirk (-1651)

Last edited by M'Sharak; May 26 2013 at 07:43 PM.
YellowSubmarine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 26 2013, 06:20 PM   #7
Greg Cox
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Oxford, PA
Re: Kirk and (spoiler) . . . peas in a pod?

YellowSubmarine wrote: View Post
Pike did not keep Kirk's family hostage.
I don't know. Have we seen Sam Kirk recently?
__________________
www.gregcox-author.com

Last edited by M'Sharak; May 26 2013 at 07:42 PM.
Greg Cox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 26 2013, 11:40 PM   #8
Titus Andronicus
Fleet Captain
 
Location: Augusta, GA
Re: Kirk and (spoiler) . . . peas in a pod?

This is a very fascinating observation. I wonder, honestly, if it'll have an impact on Star Trek 3. After all, the idea of the Federation being too weak to defend itself against potential enemies isn't a new one, but it seems to be a constant in the post-Nero age Starfleet and the Federation is dealing with.
__________________
Kurt Vonnegut: 1922-2007
Titus Andronicus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 27 2013, 12:47 AM   #9
ATimson
Rear Admiral
 
ATimson's Avatar
 
Location: Andrew Timson
Re: Kirk and (spoiler) . . . peas in a pod?

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
YellowSubmarine wrote: View Post
Pike did not keep Kirk's family hostage.
I don't know. Have we seen Sam Kirk recently?
He was in the comics' adaptation of "Operation: Annihilate!".
__________________
Andrew Timson
===============
"Niceness is the greatest human flaw, except for all the others." - Brendan Moody

"...don't mistake a few fans bitching on the Internet for any kind of trend." - Keith R.A. DeCandido
ATimson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 27 2013, 01:48 AM   #10
USS Triumphant
Rear Admiral
 
USS Triumphant's Avatar
 
Location: Go ahead, caller. I'm listening...
Re: Kirk and (spoiler) . . . peas in a pod?

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
In retrospect, I kinda wish the movie had done more with the idea that both Khan and Kirk are throwbacks of a sort, and that possibly the oh-so-"utopian" world of the Federation may need a Kirk to shake things up . . . but not a Khan?
Demolition Man?

(BTW: Complete aside, but I read Seven Deadly Sins recently and really enjoyed what you did with the Pakleds in there. )
__________________
As the brilliant philosopher once said... Everybody, have fun tonight. Everybody, Wang Chung tonight.
USS Triumphant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 27 2013, 04:17 AM   #11
Greg Cox
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Oxford, PA
Re: Kirk and (spoiler) . . . peas in a pod?

USS Triumphant wrote: View Post
Greg Cox wrote: View Post
In retrospect, I kinda wish the movie had done more with the idea that both Khan and Kirk are throwbacks of a sort, and that possibly the oh-so-"utopian" world of the Federation may need a Kirk to shake things up . . . but not a Khan?
Demolition Man?

(BTW: Complete aside, but I read Seven Deadly Sins recently and really enjoyed what you did with the Pakleds in there. )
As an aside, thanks! I admit the prospect of writing 20,000 words about the Pakleds was a bit daunting . . . .
__________________
www.gregcox-author.com
Greg Cox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 27 2013, 04:53 AM   #12
Norsehound
Lieutenant Junior Grade
 
Re: Kirk and (spoiler) . . . peas in a pod?

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
I was chatting about the movie with a friend the other day when it occurred to me that Admiral Marcus seems to have revived Khan for pretty much the same reason that Pike recruited Kirk in the prior movie.

Admiral Marcus seems to think that Starfleet has gotten too soft and civilized to protect the Federation from the Klingons and other threats,while Pike saw in Kirk a certain audacity and devil-may-care spirit that he thought 23rd century Starfleet was sorely lacking.

In retrospect, I kinda wish the movie had done more with the idea that both Khan and Kirk are throwbacks of a sort, and that possibly the oh-so-"utopian" world of the Federation may need a Kirk to shake things up . . . but not a Khan?

So how come Pike made right call, but Marcus went too far?

Discuss.
I can agree with this direction/sentiment... the Federation can't afford to be soft and humane when the Klingons are ready to expand and exert their superiority. I'm still not sure how they became allies of the feds in TNG (oh, right, a tea-sipping contest of honor?) but this isn't the case in TOS. The Feds have to earn the respect of the Klingons and it's not going to happen with a feeble Federation.

On the other hand Marcus was willing to get the big stick ready and strike first before the Klinks decided to. Not sure how well most people justify striking first, even if the Klinks take shooting as the first option for negotiations.

(No don't talk to me about honor, it's not practical and these new Klinks don't seem as honor-obsessed as the space biker samurai of yesteryear).
Norsehound is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:16 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.