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Old May 23 2013, 10:33 PM   #121
RXTT
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

From another part of the Trek BBS

Morgan Gendel: Right. What they do on Star Trek that they don't do on any other show is they give you a bible yay-thick, with all the stuff about the series

Research is key!
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Old May 23 2013, 10:40 PM   #122
Greg Cox
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

RXTT wrote: View Post
CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
RXTT wrote: View Post
all you have to do is look up any relevant details that were already included in the canon.
A writer doesn't have to do anything except write.

...And pay his taxes.

All writers worth their salt do research.
Bologna.

Have you ever read anything describing how writers do what they do? I don;t mean specifically novelists, but TV writers, script-writers, etc? They ALL DO RESEARCH.
It's part of the job, yep.

And, honestly, you can bring yourself up to speed on almost any series in a couple of weeks.
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Old May 23 2013, 10:47 PM   #123
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

RXTT wrote: View Post
Have you ever read anything describing how writers do what they do? I don;t mean specifically novelists, but TV writers, script-writers, etc? They ALL DO RESEARCH.
Everybody does research everyday. Does it help? Yes. It's not, however, what makes them good writers "worth their salt" nor is it a requisite for writing a good story.

There have been countless stories written were the entire contents came strait from the creators' brains.

In other words, your sweeping generalization was total bologna.

"canon" stuff just lays out a blueprint. This makes sure that we do not see Spock characterized as a fey, lazy brat.
If portraying Spock as a gluttonous sloth works for the betterment of the story you're trying to write, portray him as a gluttonous sloth.


From another part of the Trek BBS

Morgan Gendel: Right. What they do on Star Trek that they don't do on any other show is they give you a bible yay-thick, with all the stuff about the series

Research is key!
First of all, all TV shows have bibles. Secondly, all TV shows contradict their bibles all the time.

Research is optional but ultimately immaterial.
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Old May 23 2013, 11:11 PM   #124
JirinPanthosa
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

Abrams did not save the franchise.

He created a new franchise, which is good for different reasons.
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Old May 23 2013, 11:11 PM   #125
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
RXTT wrote: View Post
Vonnegut, Kafka, Orwell, Murakami, Bukowski, Dostoyevsky....these people did not write fiction just to "entertain." Entertainment is not a dirty word. It is the first step to making your audience think.
No. They wrote to entertain.

Even highly entertaining writers of genre fiction like Robert E. Howard, HP Lovecraft, or Sir Arthur Conan Doyle had bigger goals for their work than just entertainment.
Yes. Call it earning a living.

They priority for creating something pretty much goes like this: entertainment ---> money.

Didactic pontification is a distant third, that is, unless the artist is a giant, pretentious douche. None of those you mentioned were.

BillJ wrote: View Post
Why should a writer be forced to verse themselves in seven-hundred hours of material in order to write something?
Exactly™.


ConRefit79 wrote: View Post
So we will never go anywhere.
I don't know about you, but I will be merely skipping off to the theatre, perhaps while whistling a jaunty tune.

Wow - could not disagree more with your assessment of why a creative person creates. From my experience (married to an artist, not a writer), a creative person creates because they have something inside them that needs expression. Maybe it's different for a creative person who is a writer, than for a creative person who is an artist.
This thread is moving pretty quickly so this might have already been adressed, but I'll bet most (all?) of the professional writers on this site would disagree too. Of course it's great to earn a living, but is that the initial concern? Is that what first motivates a creative person to create? I'm thinking . . . NO!
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Old May 23 2013, 11:11 PM   #126
Belz...
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

BillJ wrote: View Post
Do you know how thick that Bible would be if you included all the minutiae from seven hundred hours of material? It would put the regular Bible to shame.


I know. I meant, the basic stuff. Important events in the timeline, what's physically or technologically forbidden on the show, that kind of stuff.

Of course, if it were me, that would all be done before the first pilot were produced, but that's me and my insane obsession with detail and structure.

That said, a reasonable amount of faithfulness simply helps suspension of disbelief and appreciation for a work of higher quality. But I can live without it.
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Old May 23 2013, 11:15 PM   #127
Warped9
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

CaptPapa wrote: View Post
CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
RXTT wrote: View Post
Vonnegut, Kafka, Orwell, Murakami, Bukowski, Dostoyevsky....these people did not write fiction just to "entertain." Entertainment is not a dirty word. It is the first step to making your audience think.
No. They wrote to entertain.


Yes. Call it earning a living.

They priority for creating something pretty much goes like this: entertainment ---> money.

Didactic pontification is a distant third, that is, unless the artist is a giant, pretentious douche. None of those you mentioned were.


Exactly™.


ConRefit79 wrote: View Post
So we will never go anywhere.
I don't know about you, but I will be merely skipping off to the theatre, perhaps while whistling a jaunty tune.

Wow - could not disagree more with your assessment of why a creative person creates. From my experience (married to an artist, not a writer), a creative person creates because they have something inside them that needs expression. Maybe it's different for a creative person who is a writer, than for a creative person who is an artist.
This thread is moving pretty quickly so this might have already been adressed, but I'll bet most (all?) of the professional writers on this site would disagree too. Of course it's great to earn a living, but is that the initial concern? Is that what first motivates a creative person to create? I'm thinking . . . NO!
I'm inclined to agree. Financial gain is often not the prime motivation for creative endeavour. Surely it could be a factor, but often not a prime one.
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Old May 23 2013, 11:16 PM   #128
JirinPanthosa
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

Abrams should not have to adhere strictly to Star Trek canon just like Christopher Nolan should not have to adhere strictly to Burton-Batman canon.
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Old May 23 2013, 11:18 PM   #129
Warped9
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
Abrams should not have to adhere strictly to Star Trek canon just like Christopher Nolan should not have to adhere strictly to Burton-Batman canon.
In principle I agree. My issue with Abrams' approach (and not really the subject of this thread) isn't that the franchise was rebooted but with the direction taken and the overall execution.

Now back to the subject at hand...
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Old May 23 2013, 11:23 PM   #130
horatio83
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

CaptPapa wrote: View Post
Wow - could not disagree more with your assessment of why a creative person creates. From my experience (married to an artist, not a writer), a creative person creates because they have something inside them that needs expression. Maybe it's different for a creative person who is a writer, than for a creative person who is an artist.
This thread is moving pretty quickly so this might have already been adressed, but I'll bet most (all?) of the professional writers on this site would disagree too. Of course it's great to earn a living, but is that the initial concern? Is that what first motivates a creative person to create? I'm thinking . . . NO!
I tend to agree but then again I also think that motivations are overrated. Sometimes people can create something sublime while having the lowest motivations.
One of my favourite writers became famous when he was nearly broke and wrote a novel which was printed in a newspaper. I prefer his late work, written when he was long out of dire financial straits, but this early novel has always been his most popular one.
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Last edited by horatio83; May 23 2013 at 11:39 PM.
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Old May 23 2013, 11:28 PM   #131
Warped9
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

horatio83 wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
Wow - could not disagree more with your assessment of why a creative person creates. From my experience (married to an artist, not a writer), a creative person creates because they have something inside them that needs expression. Maybe it's different for a creative person who is a writer, than for a creative person who is an artist.
This thread is moving pretty quickly so this might have already been adressed, but I'll bet most (all?) of the professional writers on this site would disagree too. Of course it's great to earn a living, but is that the initial concern? Is that what first motivates a creative person to create? I'm thinking . . . NO!
I tend to agree but then again I also think that motivations are overrated. Sometimes people can create something sublime while having the lowest motivations.
One of my favourite writers became famous when he was nearly broke and wrote a novel which was printed in a newspaper. I prefer his late work, written when he was long out of dire financial straits, but this early novel has always been his most popular one.
You goofed on the QUOTE. I didn't say this. CaptPapa did. I just agreed with him.
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Old May 23 2013, 11:40 PM   #132
horatio83
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

Sorry Warped9, I corrected it.
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Old May 23 2013, 11:41 PM   #133
Warped9
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

horatio83 wrote: View Post
Sorry Warped9, I corrected it.
No probs.
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Old May 24 2013, 12:13 AM   #134
MacLeod
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

I lean slightly towards no, that isn't to say he didn't have an impact on it.

But it was the fanbase in part that saved the franchise. Remember during the 70's it was the fans who kept the show alive and proved to the studio there was a demand for new trek. So an animated show was made, then plans for a new live action show which turned into a movie and so on.

Something similar happend with DW in the UK, the fans kept it alive and eventually it was regenerated by the BBC.

So perhaps JJ's biggest impact was to make true cool again.
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Old May 24 2013, 12:19 AM   #135
Belz...
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

MacLeod wrote: View Post
But it was the fanbase in part that saved the franchise.
How so ?
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