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Old May 25 2013, 10:06 PM   #271
BillJ
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

The Beatles and Star Trek are not in the same cultural ballpark. They aren't even in the same national park.
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Old May 25 2013, 10:06 PM   #272
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

Harvey wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
J. Allen wrote: View Post
So you credit Abrams with keeping the Star Trek franchise alive.
It wasn't dead to begin with.
Is I Love Lucy still a viable franchise, too? After all, it also manages to sell quite a bit of merchandise and is still being syndicated.
Then I'd say it's still viable even if not on the level of Star Trek.
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Old May 25 2013, 10:14 PM   #273
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

Yeah, I suspect we could go back and forth forever on what constitutes "life" and "death" when it comes to some particular piece of pop culture. Is Mandrake the Magician still a going concern? Does Doc Savage need saving? Is something still mainstream or just a nostalgic footnote? And how much does that matter to the true believers?

Clearly, we need Dr. McCoy to wave his medical scanner and declare whether "It's dead, JIm" or not!
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Old May 25 2013, 10:17 PM   #274
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

Warped9 wrote: View Post
Was the Star Wars franchise truly dead and obscure in the intervening years between the two trilogies? New product continued to tap into a continued interest in the property.
The Star Wars movie franchise was dead. As for the Beatles, music is a bit different but I see your point.

But then that means pretty much nothing is dead. Latin isn't a dead language because some people still learn it, etc. It makes the term "dead" for non-living things useless.
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Old May 25 2013, 10:18 PM   #275
Greg Cox
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

Warped9 wrote: View Post
Harvey wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
It wasn't dead to begin with.
Is I Love Lucy still a viable franchise, too? After all, it also manages to sell quite a bit of merchandise and is still being syndicated.
Then I'd say it's still viable even if not on the level of Star Trek.
I actually saw an "I Love Lucy" magazine on sale at the grocery store today. And I know that "Lucy" xmas ornaments are still coming out.
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Old May 25 2013, 10:23 PM   #276
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

Warped9 wrote: View Post
Harvey wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
It wasn't dead to begin with.
Is I Love Lucy still a viable franchise, too? After all, it also manages to sell quite a bit of merchandise and is still being syndicated.
Then I'd say it's still viable even if not on the level of Star Trek.
J.J.'s Star Trek (2009) received critical praise, and took in more money than any previous Star Trek movie. Hell, in terms of financial success, and adjusted for inflation, it's domestic box office take alone was 4 times that of Star Trek: Nemesis' entire worldwide box office take.

What I've gathered so far from you is that:

1) Respect doesn't matter.
2) Financial success doesn't matter.
3) Critical acclaim doesn't matter.

Without those standards, applied, you could say that "no, J.J. didn't save the franchise." Of course, that being the case, without those same standards, the entire Star Trek franchise, including the various series', can be easily replicated and is nothing special. So why would you complain about what happens to it in the first place?
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Old May 25 2013, 10:29 PM   #277
Greg Cox
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

BillJ wrote: View Post
The Beatles and Star Trek are not in the same cultural ballpark. They aren't even in the same national park.
I don't know. I'm pretty sure Chekov was the fifth Beatle.
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Old May 25 2013, 10:32 PM   #278
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
The Beatles and Star Trek are not in the same cultural ballpark. They aren't even in the same national park.
I don't know. I'm pretty sure Chekov was the fifth Beatle.
You sure he wasn't the first? The Beatles ver a Wussian inwention after all...
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Old May 25 2013, 10:32 PM   #279
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
The Beatles and Star Trek are not in the same cultural ballpark. They aren't even in the same national park.
I don't know. I'm pretty sure Chekov was the fifth Beatle.
"Back in the U.S.S.R." finally makes sense!

Mind blown.
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Old May 25 2013, 10:37 PM   #280
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

Harvey wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
Count Zero wrote: View Post

Huh? The Beatles predate Star Trek by a couple of years.
Yep, a couple of years. But how broadly recognized are they among those below a certain age group, say '40s and up?
Very broadly. There are few musical icons more widely recognized in the United States (and, I would guess, abroad).
Yeah, they're certainly better known than Star Trek.
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Old May 25 2013, 10:42 PM   #281
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

Warped9 wrote: View Post
Belz... wrote: View Post
As I said, I don't think this is what people mean by "saving the franchise", Warped9.
Oh, I understand what they mean. I just disagree with their meaning.

There hasn't been new Beatles music since 1970, but someone is maintaining and overseeing the copyright over their music. And money (I've no idea how much) continues to be made from that music. Yet while The Beatles likely are no longer as recognized among younger generations I think its safe to say they are hardly obscure as in totally forgotten but for a handful of devotees.

Over the decades I think its safe to say Star Trek has enjoyed a longer period of broad awareness than The Beatles' music.

Was the Star Wars franchise truly dead and obscure in the intervening years between the two trilogies? New product continued to tap into a continued interest in the property.

What I'm talking about is a matter of definition. Neither in the '70s or the more recently was Star Trek ever so obscure as to be forgotten and off-the-radar of broader awareness.
So when Russell T. Davies brought Doctor Who back to the TV screen, he didn't save/resurrect that show anymore than J. J. Abrams did with Star Trek?
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Old May 25 2013, 10:44 PM   #282
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

Count Zero wrote: View Post
Harvey wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
Yep, a couple of years. But how broadly recognized are they among those below a certain age group, say '40s and up?
Very broadly. There are few musical icons more widely recognized in the United States (and, I would guess, abroad).
Yeah, they're certainly better known than Star Trek.
Generally speaking: Beatles > Jesus > Star Trek.
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Old May 25 2013, 10:44 PM   #283
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
The Beatles and Star Trek are not in the same cultural ballpark. They aren't even in the same national park.
I don't know. I'm pretty sure Chekov was the fifth Beatle.
This is so typical of Trekkie grandiosity. Everyone knows Chekhov was merely Davy Jones of the Monkees!



If you like the movies, Star Trek was saved. If you don't, it wasn't. The box office is irrelevant and doesn't prove a damn thing. And it's still absurdly early to imagine that his version is going to be remembered and exploited. Will people really be so blown away when Into Darkness is remade in an alternate universe version where it is Uhura who dies, and Scotty who yells Khaaaaaan, and an even bigger Enterprise bursts forth from the clouds?
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Old May 25 2013, 10:46 PM   #284
Greg Cox
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

stj wrote: View Post
Greg Cox wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
The Beatles and Star Trek are not in the same cultural ballpark. They aren't even in the same national park.
I don't know. I'm pretty sure Chekov was the fifth Beatle.
This is so typical of Trekkie grandiosity. Everyone knows Chekhov was merely Davy Jones of the Monkees!
Oh, you daydream believer, you . . ..
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Old May 25 2013, 10:47 PM   #285
BillJ
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

iguana_tonante wrote: View Post

Generally speaking: Beatles > Star Wars > Jesus > Star Trek.
Fixed that for you.
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