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Old May 25 2013, 01:41 PM   #211
Roshi's bone
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

Now show me on that doll where that naughty JJ Abrams touched your Star Trek?
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Old May 25 2013, 01:43 PM   #212
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

Mutenroshi wrote: View Post
Now show me on that doll where that naughty JJ Abrams touched your Star Trek?
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Old May 25 2013, 01:46 PM   #213
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

Let it go. Or get someone who has stories to tell, not retread pastiche. These movies remind me of those oldies greatest hits concerts on public television. Now . . . a tribble! Now . . . the engine room death scene!

I'm surprised by some of the people here I respect who are wowed or blinded by the fact that there is Product called Trek again in the theaters. It is Transformers 2 in spaceships and Trek names. What does it profiteth you if you gain all the ticket sales in the world and lose your soul?

Let it go.
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Old May 25 2013, 01:53 PM   #214
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

Well, you know that's like, your opinion, man.

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Old May 25 2013, 02:10 PM   #215
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

plynch wrote: View Post
Let it go. Or get someone who has stories to tell, not retread pastiche. These movies remind me of those oldies greatest hits concerts on public television. Now . . . a tribble! Now . . . the engine room death scene!

I'm surprised by some of the people here I respect who are wowed or blinded by the fact that there is Product called Trek again in the theaters. It is Transformers 2 in spaceships and Trek names. What does it profiteth you if you gain all the ticket sales in the world and lose your soul?

Let it go.
Let what go? My soul? My enjoyment? Star Trek?
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Old May 25 2013, 02:49 PM   #216
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

J. Allen wrote: View Post
"Studio heads are disappointed," and "some people claim studio heads are/should be disappointed" are two wildly different statements.

I have heard nothing about the Paramount studio execs being disappointed.
Here's another qoute;http://www.tv3.ie/entertainment_arti...article=103783

Worldwide figures are predicted to have reached over $164.5 million for the J.J. Abrams film, although studio executives are said to be disappointed by the figures. The production budget rang in at $190 million.
Wikipedia also makes the claim:

Paramount was disappointed with this as, although the film was number one at the box office, it failed to reach their expectations of an opening weekend north of $100 million.[96] To date, the film has earned $189.3 million worldwide.[5]
They're claiming studio execs themselves are disappointed though it is hard to swallow with 70 million in the US so far.

This is common with big budget movies now. That's why I see the danger in 'blockbusters' in that no matter how much money they make, it's not enough.

Then you eventually get corporate meddling.

There is a huge difference in Abram's style and the television style. You don't see any real cerebral stuff in I.T.D or even the 2009 movie.

It's all action, little "science fiction", but it works money wise.
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Old May 25 2013, 02:53 PM   #217
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

stj wrote: View Post

Being forgotten? No, people remembering Star Trek became a world phenomenon before Abrams congratulated himself on being too cool to watch.
When Star Trek became popular: there was no 500-channel universe, no internet, no video-games, not much in the way of "adult" sci-fi. Star Trek had little competition. In this day and age, it would've quickly became an entertainment footnote.

And if anyone would actually watch the special features available on the Blu-ray edition they would understand exactly how much Abrams respected the material he was working with. But that would be too much effort and would contradict the nerdrage regarding Abrams.
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Old May 25 2013, 03:08 PM   #218
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

BillJ wrote: View Post
stj wrote: View Post

Being forgotten? No, people remembering Star Trek became a world phenomenon before Abrams congratulated himself on being too cool to watch.
When Star Trek became popular: there was no 500-channel universe, no internet, no video-games, not much in the way of "adult" sci-fi. Star Trek had little competition. In this day and age, it would've quickly became an entertainment footnote.

And if anyone would actually watch the special features available on the Blu-ray edition they would understand exactly how much Abrams respected the material he was working with. But that would be too much effort and would contradict the nerdrage regarding Abrams.
You don't actually have the power to assign me homework on the Blu-ray edition. Even more to the point, nobody should have to do the homework. We all know what it took to avoid seeing Star Trek at some point, which was to turn your nose up at it. And we all know what motivated that. If your point was that Abrams is cool and Star Trek fans are nerds, posting on another bbs would be a good idea.

When Star Trek became a phenomenon, it was in spite of the obstacles, not because of them. Your point about accessibility today is really rather twisted reasoning.

Whether Abrams' movies are ever going to more than a footnote remains to be seen. You are way premature there.
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Old May 25 2013, 03:19 PM   #219
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

stj wrote: View Post
When Star Trek became a phenomenon, it was in spite of the obstacles, not because of them. Your point about accessibility today is really rather twisted reasoning.
You forget that we're talking about periods 40+ years apart.
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Old May 25 2013, 03:20 PM   #220
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

stj wrote: View Post
If your point was that Abrams is cool and Star Trek fans are nerds, posting on another bbs would be a good idea.
My point being, you can dislike the new movies without denigrating the man behind them. Roddenberry and Berman and others made questionable choices over the years when it came to storytelling as well.

Abrams personal likes or dislikes have nothing to do with his ability to make a Star Trek movie. People use his "I was never a fan of Star Trek" comment as a reason to dismiss the movies he makes. And if one was to watch the special features, they would realize that quote was part of Abrams much larger views of Star Trek.

When Star Trek became a phenomenon, it was in spite of the obstacles, not because of them. Your point about accessibility today is really rather twisted reasoning.
Truth hurts. Star Trek (as much as I love it) would've never became a cultural icon if it didn't have the playing field to itself for much of the 70's and 80's.
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Old May 25 2013, 03:44 PM   #221
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

First the observation about Abrams wasn't all that denigrating. Not nearly as nasty as "nerdrage" for example. I don't imagine for a moment the adult Abrams thinks like the adolescent Abrams. Nor can I conceive any way to read the post that way.

Second, there was no "playing field" when Star Trek became popular. You guys are the ones who can't grasp the difference.

Third, it is too soon to attribute staying power to Abrams' offerings.
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Old May 25 2013, 03:45 PM   #222
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

BillJ wrote: View Post
Star Trek had little competition.
I don't think that's true.

Here's a partial list of science fiction television programs, in first run and in syndication in the US from 1966 up to 1977 (the year Star Wars came out).
Lost in Space
Land of the Giants
The Time Tunnel
Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea

Thunderbirds
Captain Scarlet and the Mysterons
UFO
Space: 1999

The Prisoner
The Avengers

Batman

The Six Million Dollar Man
The Bionic Woman
Planet of the Apes
Most everything there was in direct competition with Star Trek in the toy department. I know; I had the toys! There were multiple opportunities to knock Star Trek off the map. Star Trek stood the test of time, because it offered much that no other show did.
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Old May 25 2013, 03:57 PM   #223
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
Star Trek stood the test of time, because it offered much that no other show did.
I acknowledged that it was the first "adult" sci-fi. But it floundered in first run and had little in the way of "adult" competition.

Star Trek was special (I loved it in 1975, I still love it today), but it was easy to stand-out when you look at the competition.
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Old May 25 2013, 04:09 PM   #224
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

BillJ wrote: View Post
And if anyone would actually watch the special features available on the Blu-ray edition they would understand exactly how much Abrams respected the material he was working with. But that would be too much effort and would contradict the nerdrage regarding Abrams.
I've seen those specials on the disc. I certainly didn't get any impression of genuine respect, particularly when he flat out says he felt Trek should be more like Star Wars.

Then I certainly didn't see much of any respect manifest onscreen either.

And for him to say Star Trek was too philosophical, well too bad. That's part of its identity.


Star Trek would have been forgotten without the Abrams' films? Hardly, particularly since the last incarnations weren't in the far past and with reruns galore still available. Also given that Hollywood likes to resurrect things many if not most hardly remember or even knew existed.
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Old May 25 2013, 04:18 PM   #225
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

BillJ wrote: View Post
CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
Star Trek stood the test of time, because it offered much that no other show did.
I acknowledged that it was the first "adult" sci-fi. But it floundered in first run and had little in the way of "adult" competition.

At the risking of going off on a tangent, I'd argue that "The Twilight Zone" and "The Outer Limits" were probably the first adult scifi shows. But, yes, "Trek" was definitely more adult than the Irwin Allen stuff, while still having plenty of kid appeal as well. (Monsters! Space ships! Transporter beams!)

Which raises an interesting question: Has anyone ever gotten hooked on Trek as an adult . . . or did we all discover it as kids first?

(I know I was only seven when I was first entranced by the Salt Vampire . . . .)
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