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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Star Trek - Original Series

Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old May 24 2013, 01:34 AM   #16
Nerys Myk
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Re: Sci-Fi or Action?

Marsden wrote: View Post
ssosmcin wrote: View Post
Depends on the episode. Although the series is generally accepted as "science fiction," there are many which aren't. The series should probably be categorized as "fantasy." "It's a Good Life" has no sci-fi in it, it has a kid with natural powers. It's horror/fantasy.
ssosmcin wrote: View Post
The details are sci-fi, but the general plot can be and was used as a general warfare plot on Earth in almost any era. It's not a sci-fi story, it's a story used in a sci-fi milieu.
I think I'm still having trouble distinguishing the difference of what you said. I understand what you seem to be saying but the distinction of it seems blurry. Could you give me a few examples, for clarification? If you want to, of course.

I'll try a few.

Event Horizon, would be Horror instead of Science Fiction, or both possbily? (maybe I was the only one that saw that)
Both. No reason why it can't be. Frankenstein is both as well. Dracula on the other hand is Fantasy Horror.

[
2001 would sound like it's got to be Science Fiction, but but is it really just a Mystery within a sci-fi milieu?
Science Fiction Mystery sounds about right. Caves of Steel is one too, using slightly more "traditional" elements.

Galaxy Quest is a comedy, but it has (in story) real aliens and space ships, is it a Science Fiction movie as well?
Yeah, Science Fiction Comedy. As is Spaceballs. Which is also a specific style of comedy, parody.

Invasion of the Body Snatchers is probably a horror movie within a sci-fi milieu.
Science Fiction Horror. TOS uses a similar plot in "This Side of Paradise".

As far as concepts go, is mental powers (telepathy, telekinesis) a science fiction concept or a fantasy concept, or both, or something else entirely?
Both. If Doctor Strange reads your mind it Fantasy. If Professor X reads your mind it's Science Fiction.
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Old May 24 2013, 01:56 AM   #17
Greg Cox
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Re: Sci-Fi or Action?

Science fiction and horror have been joined at the hip since Frankenstein at least.. Just look at H. G. Wells, Alien . . . or H. P. Lovecraft, whose tales of "cosmic horror" were published in both Weird Tales and Amazing Stories.
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Old May 24 2013, 02:05 AM   #18
BennieGamali
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Re: Sci-Fi or Action?

Social science is also science. I don't think sci-fi has to do with technology or biology all the time. In TOS there is a lot of culture stuff, there are a lot of philosophical issues taken up. There are also ALOT of ethical issues being poked at. The show often seemed to me to want to provoke people by speaking of how violent and savage and simple human beings are. If ST isn't sci-fi I am sure the same could be said of all sci-fi series. B5 could be called a series about politics and war in space.

My point is, you have to know how you define the term sci-fi first. Does sci-fi only entail robots, clones and space ships? Or do aliens, space travel and social science enter into it? IMO Social science seems to be a major thing in all sci-fi works, and social science plays a huge part in TOS.
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Old May 24 2013, 02:34 AM   #19
scotpens
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Re: Sci-Fi or Action?

ssosmcin wrote: View Post
Marsden wrote: View Post
. . . Isn't Twilight Zone Science Fiction? Maybe I'm not good with the term
Depends on the episode. Although the series is generally accepted as "science fiction," there are many which aren't. The series should probably be categorized as "fantasy." "It's a Good Life" has no sci-fi in it, it has a kid with natural powers. It's horror/fantasy.
Some original Twilight Zone episodes -- "Where Is Everybody?," "The Silence," "The Shelter" -- have no sci-fi or fantasy at all. They're best described as offbeat drama.

MacLeod wrote: View Post
True, whilst the setting might be Sci-Fi you can tell many different types of story.
Which, of course, was a key element of Gene Roddeberry's concept right from the beginning.
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Old May 24 2013, 03:39 AM   #20
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: Sci-Fi or Action?

Big Daddy wrote: View Post
I recently watched the redlettermedia critique of Abrams first Trek film; the gist of which was that the movie was basically an action film disguised as TOS.
Interesting, as TOS was an action series disguised as TOS.

Charlie X = sci-fi or Twilight Zone's It's a Good Life in space?
It's a transparent lift from "It's A Good Life," whether the TZ script or Bixby's original short story.
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Old May 27 2013, 10:03 AM   #21
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Re: Sci-Fi or Action?

Isaac Asimov sometimes said of science fiction that it was, "That branch of literature which is concerned with the impact of scientific advance upon human beings." You can interpret that as narrowly or broadly as you like.
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Old May 27 2013, 03:07 PM   #22
TREK_GOD_1
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Re: Sci-Fi or Action?

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
Third Nacelle wrote: View Post
Except for maybe some 50s B-movies, I can't really think of anything that is pure science fiction.
So, 2001: A Space Odyssey is not pure science fiction? Ditto, Logan's Run? Star Trek: The Motion Picture? The Andromeda Strain? Just to pick some obvious examples outside the 1950's, that is.

Let's not forget Planet of the Apes - the entire original film series - may have been heavy on sociopolitical drama, but the majority of the framework, and means to move the story were filled with strong sci-fi hallmarks. Then, there's Westworld, Silent Running, Fantastic Voyage..the list goes on and on.

There's no way to toss all older productions into the same very light sci-fi of nuTrek, which set out to be more Michael Bay Meets Star Wars, which just so happened to have Trek-ian visual trappings, than a genuine production honoring the legacy of the source (which does not mean copy+paste, before anyone posts that).
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Old May 27 2013, 06:59 PM   #23
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Re: Sci-Fi or Action?

TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
There's no way to toss all older productions into the same very light sci-fi of nuTrek, which set out to be more Michael Bay Meets Star Wars, which just so happened to have Trek-ian visual trappings...
There really is, if one is honest in the analysis.
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Old May 27 2013, 07:27 PM   #24
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Re: Sci-Fi or Action?

Admiral Buzzkill wrote: View Post
TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
There's no way to toss all older productions into the same very light sci-fi of nuTrek, which set out to be more Michael Bay Meets Star Wars, which just so happened to have Trek-ian visual trappings...
There really is, if one is honest in the analysis.
Hardly. None of the aforementioned films strayed as far into what is now recognized as the over the top, Bay/SW/action zone than nuTrek. Even within the concept, no other Star Trek production has ever recieved this kind of public criticism in nearly 50 years of the concept. ST has recieved blows for other shortcomings, or just bad ideas, but not the action tag.

...and that includes First Contact.
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Old May 27 2013, 07:35 PM   #25
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Re: Sci-Fi or Action?

TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
Admiral Buzzkill wrote: View Post
TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
There's no way to toss all older productions into the same very light sci-fi of nuTrek, which set out to be more Michael Bay Meets Star Wars, which just so happened to have Trek-ian visual trappings...
There really is, if one is honest in the analysis.
Hardly. None of the aforementioned films strayed as far into what is now recognized as the over the top, Bay/SW/action zone than nuTrek. Even within the concept, no other Star Trek production has ever recieved this kind of public criticism in nearly 50 years of the concept. ST has recieved blows for other shortcomings, or just bad ideas, but not the action tag.

...and that includes First Contact.
What is so bad about the action tag? I loved watching Kirk fight the Gorn in Arena, getting his ass handed to him by Spock in The Naked Time and This Side of Paradise, getting his ass handed to him by Finnegan in Shore Leave, getting his ass handed to him by Ron Tracy in The Omega Glory...

The action/space ships/cool monsters was what actually lured me to Star Trek all those years ago.

From my perspective, what Abrams has produced is "Star Trek" with a much higher budget and better production technology.
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Old May 28 2013, 12:50 AM   #26
TREK_GOD_1
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Re: Sci-Fi or Action?

BillJ wrote: View Post
What is so bad about the action tag? I loved watching Kirk fight the Gorn in Arena, getting his ass handed to him by Spock in The Naked Time and This Side of Paradise, getting his ass handed to him by Finnegan in Shore Leave, getting his ass handed to him by Ron Tracy in The Omega Glory...
Every one of the scenes were just that--scenes. The overall tone of the episode was not Bay-like, noisy, over the top action, which was not the point--the story--the drama was.

Arena:the fight is not the actual setpiece, but Kirk's behavior before and after the fight is the episode.

The Omega Glory:Kirk fought Tracey, but that was by no means the tone or drive of that script. The eerie teaser, Tracey's brutal behavior and the civil war was the story.

The action/space ships/cool monsters was what actually lured me to Star Trek all those years ago.
That was a minor part of TOS. A series which was pretty much about all of those elements all of the time was Lost in Space, as it was THE 1960s template for the kind of loud, thrill / spectacle over substance of today's nuTrek--not exactly thought provoking sci-fi that TOS was more often than not.
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Old May 28 2013, 02:38 AM   #27
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: Sci-Fi or Action?

BillJ wrote: View Post
From my perspective, what Abrams has produced is "Star Trek" with a much higher budget and better production technology.
Yeah, Abrams's films have captured the feeling of the original Star Trek TV series to a degree that previous Trek films never did.
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Old May 28 2013, 03:42 AM   #28
JirinPanthosa
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Re: Sci-Fi or Action?

I think the best scifi is scifi that has smart action.

The heroes win because they're clever and outwit the opponent, not because they're the best at shooting people.

That's what Star Trek circa 1960s-2005 is.
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Old May 28 2013, 09:41 AM   #29
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Re: Sci-Fi or Action?

TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
Admiral Buzzkill wrote: View Post
TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
There's no way to toss all older productions into the same very light sci-fi of nuTrek, which set out to be more Michael Bay Meets Star Wars, which just so happened to have Trek-ian visual trappings...
There really is, if one is honest in the analysis.
Hardly. None of the aforementioned films strayed as far into what is now recognized as the over the top, Bay/SW/action zone than nuTrek. Even within the concept, no other Star Trek production has ever recieved this kind of public criticism in nearly 50 years of the concept. ST has recieved blows for other shortcomings, or just bad ideas, but not the action tag.

...and that includes First Contact.
Ah, short memories. So, no recollection of how TWOK was received in certain fan circles when it first came out, I take it.
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Old May 28 2013, 10:46 AM   #30
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Sci-Fi or Action?

"Indiana Skywalker Meets the Son of Star Trek" from Best of Trek #7, reads like a criticism of the 2009 movie. I laughed my ass off at how little fandom and fan complaints have changed over the years. Wrath of Khan was apparently a popcorn action flick, which would never stand up to repeat viewings like the original 79 episodes did...
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