RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 138,357
Posts: 5,355,410
Members: 24,625
Currently online: 513
Newest member: Saracuda

TrekToday headlines

Borg Cube Fridge
By: T'Bonz on Jul 29

Free Enterprise Kickstarter
By: T'Bonz on Jul 29

Siddig To Join Game Of Thrones
By: T'Bonz on Jul 29

Sci-Fried To Release New Album
By: T'Bonz on Jul 28

Star Trek/Planet of the Apes Crossover
By: T'Bonz on Jul 28

Star Trek into Darkness Soundtrack
By: T'Bonz on Jul 28

Horse 1, Shatner 0
By: T'Bonz on Jul 28

Drexler TV Alert
By: T'Bonz on Jul 26

Retro Review: His Way
By: Michelle on Jul 26

MicroWarriors Releases Next Week
By: T'Bonz on Jul 25


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old May 20 2013, 03:47 PM   #1
Chu'lak
Lieutenant
 
No Gas in the tank... SPOILERS

So Khan removed the fuel components of the photon torpedoes to smuggle in his crew... so what would have happened if they had been shot out of the torpedo bays?
Chu'lak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 20 2013, 03:58 PM   #2
sj4iy
Commander
 
sj4iy's Avatar
 
Location: US
Re: No Gas in the tank... SPOILERS

Probably very bad things.
sj4iy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 20 2013, 04:01 PM   #3
Admiral Buzzkill
Fleet Admiral
 
Re: No Gas in the tank... SPOILERS

That bothered me too.

The second time I saw the movie I noticed that Carol said "this fuel cell has been removed" (or replaced or whatever) rather than "the fuel cell..." etc. Given the size of the torpedo versus the cryocannister I'm assuming that the torps each have more than one fuel cell.

That said, this aspect of the plot is rather a mess once you start asking questions.
Admiral Buzzkill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 20 2013, 04:29 PM   #4
Belz...
Fleet Captain
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Location: In a finely-crafted cosmos... of my own making.
Re: No Gas in the tank... SPOILERS

A lot of movies become nonsensical when you start analysing them.

Still, that one is a good question.
Belz... is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 20 2013, 05:18 PM   #5
ThunderAeroI
Rear Admiral
 
ThunderAeroI's Avatar
 
Location: Perpetually being chased by airplanes
Re: No Gas in the tank... SPOILERS

My guess is that they were never going to be fired anyway. My bet is Marcus felt that Kirk wouldn't launch them and they would be used as leverage... Which I think is what Marcus really wanted. Fuel or no fuel does not matter Kahn turned-over once he knew the count.
__________________
No Where to be found, but everywhere you are - I'll be there looking for ways to save your life.
ThunderAeroI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 20 2013, 05:20 PM   #6
Franklin
Rear Admiral
 
Location: In the bleachers
Re: No Gas in the tank... SPOILERS

Yeah, the missiles were the oddest part of the story (which is bad considering they were also crucial).

At first, I thought maybe Marcus was giving Kirk the missiles having put Khan's people in them as a way of getting rid of them after Khan went rogue. But that's too convoluted to make any sense at all. Especially taking care to put them in still frozen and alive.

It turns out, anyway that Khan put them there, himself. So maybe it was a way of getting them onto the Vengeance, where those missiles were probably intended to go in the first place. Seventy-two Trojan horses. Once they were there, Khan would find a way to board the sparesly crewed ship before the missiles were fired and revive his friends (if Scotty could run around the ship undetected, Khan certainly could get aboard and find a way to revive his people). Khan and his people would then take control of the Vengeance. That meddling Kirk getting the missiles was not what Khan believed would happen. There are problems with this premise, too, but it makes some sense.

The final problem is there are exactly 72 missiles. What a convenient number. Wouldn't that raise eyebrows among Marcus's people? Did they coincidentally order 72? What if the initial order was for only 64 missiles? What if there were 84? What if only 50 had been loaded onto the Enterprise?
__________________
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. -- Mark Twain
Franklin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 20 2013, 05:39 PM   #7
CommishSleer
Fleet Captain
 
CommishSleer's Avatar
 
Location: Way back of nowhere
View CommishSleer's Twitter Profile
Re: No Gas in the tank... SPOILERS

They said Carol was a weapons expert (good change of profession from TOS to STID) but shes not perfect. She's not Spock.
I think Khan's so good he just modified the uber destruction photon torpedoes to not only hold a human plus all their cryogenic gear plus a fuel cell and uber explosives.
I think Adm. Marcus got possession of these torpedoes, examined them and determined that they could still be used to blow up things even with Khan's crew in them.
Then he instructed Kirk to use all 72 torpedoes to blow up Khan. Not only would this kill Khan but he would also kill Khan's family by using his invention against him. So Marcus would get his vengeance for the destruction of London's Section 31.

I was just wondering how much extra space is in these photon torpedoes anyway to fit a whole human in it and still work.
In TWOK was Spock's coffin placed in a torpedo or was it a torpedo or was it a coffin just shoved into space?
It still went to Genesis so it probably was fueled. If it was a torpedo then I assume the explosive mechanism was removed
CommishSleer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 20 2013, 06:48 PM   #8
Admiral Buzzkill
Fleet Admiral
 
Re: No Gas in the tank... SPOILERS

Look, if Khan made it possible for Marcus to build Vengeance and these super torpedoes and it's clearly implied that he did - what sense does it make for a shrewd manipulator like Marcus to turn around and kill 72 other potential sources of useful innovation?

"Okay, Khan's gone rogue. Thaw out another one."

Anyway, the idea that he would have put all 72 of them aboard the Enterprise does strain credulity. There are easier and far less risky ways of killing them all, if that's what he wanted to do.
Admiral Buzzkill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 20 2013, 06:58 PM   #9
BritishSeaPower
Commander
 
BritishSeaPower's Avatar
 
Location: New Jersey
View BritishSeaPower's Twitter Profile
Re: No Gas in the tank... SPOILERS

I felt like when Marcus was first explaining the torpedo to Kirk it was implied that were was only one (or at least a small amount). Even the lines with Scotty make it seem like there aren't a lot of torpedoes. I assumed this would be some sort of genesis device nod.

Yeah, that whole aspect of the plot didn't make a lot of sense and really there's no explanation that works well. (If Kirk just went and fired the torpedoes what would have happened? Seemingly he would have killed 72 people and the torpedoes wouldn't have exploded?) It was needlessly convoluted.

I do like the idea that they were Khan's way of getting the augments onto the Vengeance though.
__________________
"I love humans. Always seeing patterns in things that aren't there." - The Eighth Doctor
BritishSeaPower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 20 2013, 07:09 PM   #10
Admiral Buzzkill
Fleet Admiral
 
Re: No Gas in the tank... SPOILERS

They mentioned that the warhead on the one torpedo was "live," so whatever Khan did apparently wouldn't have kept the thing from exploding.
Admiral Buzzkill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 20 2013, 07:56 PM   #11
TommyW
Lieutenant Junior Grade
 
Re: No Gas in the tank... SPOILERS

You have to question the sanity of anyone that thinks the safest place to keep anyone is in a torpedo The plot of the whole film is pretty ridiculous. It's credit to Abrams that he managed to make it watchable. Hopefully they'll get some proper writers in for the next one though
TommyW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 20 2013, 08:20 PM   #12
Franklin
Rear Admiral
 
Location: In the bleachers
Re: No Gas in the tank... SPOILERS

TommyW wrote: View Post
You have to question the sanity of anyone that thinks the safest place to keep anyone is in a torpedo The plot of the whole film is pretty ridiculous. It's credit to Abrams that he managed to make it watchable. Hopefully they'll get some proper writers in for the next one though
Meh. It can be explained away. We don't know what his pristine plan was before Kirk got involved. He had to believe those missiles were meant for the Vengeance. He was proabably plotting to take the ship for himself.

Smuggling his friends aboard in topedoes with their warheads intact but unarmed like they were Trojan horses would be the the last thing anyone would think (it is a bit insane, after all), but if he gets on board and revives them, there's no doubt they'd take the ship over, and Khan would be on a rampage with the Federation's newest warship and 72 powerful missiles at his disposal.
__________________
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. -- Mark Twain
Franklin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 20 2013, 08:24 PM   #13
Admiral Buzzkill
Fleet Admiral
 
Re: No Gas in the tank... SPOILERS

They'll keep these writers.
Admiral Buzzkill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 20 2013, 08:34 PM   #14
throwback
Captain
 
Re: No Gas in the tank... SPOILERS

In Star Trek: The Next Generation, we saw a Class 8 probe - a variant of the photon torpedo used for sensor missions - modified to contain a lifeform. And, we saw that Spock's inert form was sent to the surface of Genesis in a torpedo. So, it's not inconceivable that people could be stored in a torpedo casing.
throwback is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 20 2013, 09:51 PM   #15
datalogan
Lieutenant Commander
 
datalogan's Avatar
 
Location: Seattle, WA
Re: No Gas in the tank... SPOILERS

Franklin wrote: View Post
The final problem is there are exactly 72 missiles. What a convenient number. Wouldn't that raise eyebrows among Marcus's people? Did they coincidentally order 72? What if the initial order was for only 64 missiles? What if there were 84? What if only 50 had been loaded onto the Enterprise?
It does raise a good question.
There had to be more than 72 missiles initially. Watch the scene leading up to the bombing in London. There's a missile or two in the archive right before the bomb goes off. So, that[those] missile[s] was[were] destroyed. And there were still exactly 72 human-loaded missiles left.

Plus, they had to redesign the Enterprise [somehow, somewhen] to give her 72 launch tubes. She didn't have those in the last movie. How convenient that Enterprise has exactly 72 launch tubes.

All this rewriting and handwaving had to happen just because the writers decided to shoe-horn Khan's backstory into John Harrison's backstory. And TOS "Space Seed" had already established that there were exactly 72 followers of Khan on the Botany Bay.
They could have just not used Khan, and then the 72 number wouldn't have been necessary.
Or they could have added some line about how Khan was only able to save a certain number. You know, something more reasonable, like a dozen, more like the number of followers Khan had left in ST:II.
datalogan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:14 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.