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Old May 22 2013, 06:01 PM   #16
Donny
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Re: the ceiling of Kirk`s Bridge - transparent?

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
Donny wrote: View Post
This isn't canon, but this is how I've always imagined it. All that light on the bridge has to come from somewhere.
Hmm...it may not be canon in the sense that we did see it, but also it's not necessarily a contradiction, because the shot with the noticable ceiling is from the second pilot film and therefore before the Bridge underwent several upgrades and changes.

Thus, for the regular series, the inner Bridge dome may have looked like what you designed, we just never got to see it.

Bob
But then again, there is this shot from Is There In Truth No Beauty?. Obviously, where the bridge segment tops meet to form the "half-dome", the ceiling then shoots 90 degrees upward in a cylindrical fashion. This makes my version non-canon.

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Old May 22 2013, 06:22 PM   #17
scotpens
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Re: the ceiling of Kirk`s Bridge - transparent?

xvicente wrote: View Post
. . . So. Is the top of the bridge (deck 0?) supposed to be transparent? All these years I saw it emitting light as is(are) the filming model(s), but now I wonder, the opening scene in The Menagerie/The Cage shows a camera zoom from space into the bridge, that I always thought was a visual language not to be taken literally, and the "real" exterior would be some kind of device that emits light, like an active sensor antenna or other technobabble.
That was always my take on the "through-the-dome" shot at the beginning of "The Cage." It was meant to give viewers an idea of the size of the ship and the location of the bridge -- not to be taken as a literal transparent ceiling, but more like Superman's X-ray vision.

FJ's blueprints have a sensor platform under the bridge dome and another sensor platform above the saucer's bottom dome.

xvicente wrote: View Post
. . .I supposed the real set didn't have a ceiling because of lightning equipment and such.
At the time TOS was produced, most movie and TV filming sets didn't have ceilings. With today's smaller and more maneuverable cameras, lower light requirements, and a trend toward greater realism, some sets are built with ceilings, though AFAIK many sets are still completely open at the top for lighting.

Does anyone with experience in the industry have more detailed knowledge of this subject?

Venardhi wrote: View Post
make it one of those materials that can change its transparency based on running an electrical charge through it. Even the densest and strongest materials are still mostly nothing after all. I see no reason for them not to be able to hit a button and turn the whole ship transparent.
That's assuming they would want to.
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Old May 22 2013, 09:15 PM   #18
Robert Comsol
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Re: the ceiling of Kirk`s Bridge - transparent?

Donny wrote: View Post
But then again, there is this shot from Is There In Truth No Beauty?. Obviously, where the bridge segment tops meet to form the "half-dome", the ceiling then shoots 90 degrees upward in a cylindrical fashion. This makes my version non-canon.
Oops...I overlooked this one. However, in contrast to the one from the pilot it rather looks like an added (unfolded "Forbidden Planet" style?) structure than permanently attached, but that's probably owed to the hectic of production, so we might not need to take it literally, necessarily.

Bob
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Old May 22 2013, 09:24 PM   #19
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Re: the ceiling of Kirk`s Bridge - transparent?

one more render for today


inside030 por vicentox1999, no Flickr
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Old May 23 2013, 12:24 AM   #20
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Re: the ceiling of Kirk`s Bridge - transparent?

Donny wrote: View Post
blssdwlf wrote: View Post
@Donny - it looks great but I think it is missing the forward "notch" on the ceiling to complete it
Bah! I keep forgetting to add that piece! You're the second person to point that out.


xvicente wrote: View Post
That your work? sweet.
Thank you, and yes, you can check out my thread by clicking here.



xvicente wrote: View Post
p.s. can someone point me a picture/screenshot of the bridge from above? I think it was in the beginning of an episode but I cant remember which one.
That would be from The Galileo Seven.
They also reuse the shot in "The Lights of Zetar."

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Old May 23 2013, 05:51 AM   #21
Venardhi
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Re: the ceiling of Kirk`s Bridge - transparent?

scotpens wrote: View Post
Venardhi wrote: View Post
make it one of those materials that can change its transparency based on running an electrical charge through it. Even the densest and strongest materials are still mostly nothing after all. I see no reason for them not to be able to hit a button and turn the whole ship transparent.
That's assuming they would want to.
Who wouldn't want to be able to stand on the bridge of their starship and turn the room around them transparent to watch stars fly by?
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Old May 23 2013, 03:17 PM   #22
Albertese
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Re: the ceiling of Kirk`s Bridge - transparent?

Venardhi wrote: View Post
scotpens wrote: View Post
Venardhi wrote: View Post
make it one of those materials that can change its transparency based on running an electrical charge through it. Even the densest and strongest materials are still mostly nothing after all. I see no reason for them not to be able to hit a button and turn the whole ship transparent.
That's assuming they would want to.
Who wouldn't want to be able to stand on the bridge of their starship and turn the room around them transparent to watch stars fly by?
The very fact that there are windows suggests this isn't the case. If it was that easy to casually transparent-ize the walls, then why bother having windows at all?

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Old May 23 2013, 04:09 PM   #23
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Re: the ceiling of Kirk`s Bridge - transparent?

Has anyone tried a version with indirect lighting coming from behind the uppermost curvy part of the set as built, and reflecting of a slightly concave ceiling? This would not only look futuristic but would also cut down on the intensity, and therefore the glare, that a single large central lightsource would otherwise produce.
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Old May 23 2013, 09:04 PM   #24
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Re: the ceiling of Kirk`s Bridge - transparent?

The very fact that there are windows suggests this isn't the case. If it was that easy to casually transparent-ize the walls, then why bother having windows at all?
This might in fact explain why those windows are at the oddest locations in the outside view - a big concentration in the neck, which is the least habitable part, and noticeable dearth in the saucer rim areas, despite much of the crew supposedly being housed there.

Quite possibly, the windows cover much of the ship, but generally are shuttered by adjusting opaqueness, so that they appear seamlessly blank from the outside. Additional mechanical shutters may exist on the inside (say, for the portholes of "Mark of Gideon" even if those don't match outside porthole shapes particularly well), but the basic mechanism is one of turning parts of the hull transparent and back with a keypress.

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Old May 23 2013, 09:17 PM   #25
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Re: the ceiling of Kirk`s Bridge - transparent?

Like Transparent Aluminum, but opaque? who would think of something like that?
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Old May 23 2013, 09:27 PM   #26
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Re: the ceiling of Kirk`s Bridge - transparent?

There are reasons why transparent materials might have to be more brittle than opaque ones: light doesn't easily pass through materials that have the sort of bonds that provide tensile strength. But this is by no means a universal given, and windows might easily be the strongest part of a starship, or then simply structurally identical to the opaque hull sections.

Aluminum as such is just an element you can insert in transparent and opaque materials; pure aluminum metal doesn't get transparent to visible light no matter what you do with it, but "transparent aluminum" does not have any "mandatory" physical properties we could infer from the name alone. For all we know, it doesn't even contain any aluminum at all, but is dubbed that because it is physically somewhat similar to aluminum metal, or for some other frivolous reason.

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Old May 23 2013, 10:35 PM   #27
Mytran
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Re: the ceiling of Kirk`s Bridge - transparent?

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
Donny wrote: View Post
But then again, there is this shot from Is There In Truth No Beauty?. Obviously, where the bridge segment tops meet to form the "half-dome", the ceiling then shoots 90 degrees upward in a cylindrical fashion. This makes my version non-canon.
Oops...I overlooked this one. However, in contrast to the one from the pilot it rather looks like an added (unfolded "Forbidden Planet" style?) structure than permanently attached, but that's probably owed to the hectic of production, so we might not need to take it literally, necessarily.

Bob
It seems to shoot vertically upwards, but there's not really enough reference points to say categorically in-universe that it's actually the case. I could easily interpret that to be a curved ceiling with an odd pattern (on the segments). The shot is static, after all. Ditto for WNMHGB, but the view of the ceiling is much briefer
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Old May 24 2013, 02:37 PM   #28
blssdwlf
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Re: the ceiling of Kirk`s Bridge - transparent?

TIN_MAN wrote: View Post
Has anyone tried a version with indirect lighting coming from behind the uppermost curvy part of the set as built, and reflecting of a slightly concave ceiling? This would not only look futuristic but would also cut down on the intensity,
I tried this interesting idea and the results I got were the vertical ceiling walls (above the the curved part) becomes very bright (or hot) because of all the initial light bounces. A half dome in the center (like in TMP) seems to have a more even distribution of light. I'll post up a sample when I get off work. Donny's super-wide and relatively flat dome could also work because the light is coming from such a large surface.
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Old May 25 2013, 08:58 AM   #29
blssdwlf
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Re: the ceiling of Kirk`s Bridge - transparent?

Quick and dirty Sample lighting:

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Old May 25 2013, 10:53 AM   #30
YARN
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Re: the ceiling of Kirk`s Bridge - transparent?

I wouldn't get hung up on the "canon rule" that "If it is on-screen, it's real!" in all cases.

There are shots with equipment shadows, jiggly walls, the mat used to break a fall, etc.

In the case of the Enterprise bridge, there are a precious few instances where the camera tilts up, but this was not a highly finished part of the set which was intended to pass visual scrutiny. If your eyes are where they are supposed to be (i.e., watching the characters), you should only be catching the ceiling in your peripheral vision.

Consequently, the nature of the dome is open to question.

We've seen at least one transparent dome (Generations). It might be a sensor dome. It might be translucent. It might be transparent. It might be some combination (i.e., flip a switch and it polarizes to keep out light).

There is room for interpretation here.
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