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Old February 22 2014, 02:30 AM   #571
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Re: New Star Wars animated show "Rebels" coming fall 2014

If Vader engages them, those characters are going to die (my preference) or Vader is going to lose cred if they score a victory over him.
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Old February 22 2014, 02:35 AM   #572
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Re: New Star Wars animated show "Rebels" coming fall 2014

Another thing from the bag-of-usual-tricks is to send minor or guest (i.e., throwaway) characters off to their deaths at Vader's hands. Meet the new guy wearing the red shirt.
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Old February 22 2014, 05:16 AM   #573
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Re: New Star Wars animated show "Rebels" coming fall 2014

Or, Vader defeats and captures a main character, then leaves, and then the others rescue him.
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Old February 22 2014, 05:24 AM   #574
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Re: New Star Wars animated show "Rebels" coming fall 2014

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
The curse of fans writing material is that they tend to regurgitate the cool beats from the original source material. If Vader's going to be engaging these characters directly, there's going to have to be a novel twist. Or he just kills them, which I doubt.
Well, I don't see too many opportunities for Vader to be engaging the heroes directly, with any regularity ... though I also don't see where anyone here is advocating specifically that kind of interaction, either. Furthermore, Filoni and his crew made quite a bit of hay out of referencing specific beats, lines, circumstances, etc. in TCW. Whether or not you think they were simply "regurgitating" those moments, or utilizing them in a fun way to advance the story and refer back to all six films in the saga is, certainly, open to interpretation.

But as far as I am concerned, they handled those references exceedingly well. To the point where I have little concern that depicting Vader on-screen in Rebels would undermine his character or the OT.

So while I agree that the Inquisitor is better suited for more frequent, personal, and direct confrontations, Vader's presence can certainly be a benefit to the show as well. At least, from my certain point of view.
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Old February 22 2014, 05:26 AM   #575
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Re: New Star Wars animated show "Rebels" coming fall 2014

In other words, Leia aboard the Death Star all over again, only before Leia aboard the Death Star ever happens. Yeah, I hope the writers don't pen some episode where Vader has the crew in his sights, captures one or more of them and then we sit back and watch the incompetence of his supposed crack troops as the characters escape or get rescued. Then there's the obligatory "Vader balling up his fist and complaining" scene where he vows to destroy them all should their paths cross again.

Not too enthusiastic about that. They could do better, and the fewer "whew, that was a close call" encounters with Darth Vader the better for everybody.
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Old February 22 2014, 05:34 AM   #576
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Re: New Star Wars animated show "Rebels" coming fall 2014

cooleddie74 wrote: View Post
Then there's the obligatory "Vader balling up his fist and complaining" scene where he vows to destroy them all should their paths cross again.
"NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!"

I'm cool with Vader not being the Skeletor of the show, the villain who loses every week. But I want the show to explore the big-picture history and politics of the Empire and the Rebellion to a reasonable degree. It doesn't have to involve the crew of the Ghost every week. TCW moved back and forth among quite a few different focus characters. I doubt Rebels would do that to the same extent, but there could be some episodes focused more on the Ghost and others focused more on the halls of power, the Senate, Vader, etc. Or there could be an A plot about one and a B plot about the other.

Knowing Weisman, I wouldn't be surprised if we saw Vader and Palpatine's machinations as an ongoing arc underlying the events of the season's overall storyline, like the Light in Young Justice. I certainly wouldn't be surprised to see episodes where the heroes think they've scored some victory but it all turns out to be a step in a Xanatos Gambit of Palpatine's or Vader's.
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Old February 22 2014, 05:41 AM   #577
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Re: New Star Wars animated show "Rebels" coming fall 2014

I'm with you on wanting to see more politics and the development of the Empire into the institution we saw for the very first time in A New Hope. I'd like to see the Senate chamber in action all over again, this time as the Imperial Senate. Some Imperial bureaucrats and moffs rushing about trying to determine which official gets to rule which sliver or chunk of territory and how it will benefit them and their own ambitions.

I know this is an animated show on a Disney network that skews towards kids, boys and action, but some texture and depth won't hurt a series like this. Given all the kid-friendly elements in Episode I we still got treated to a lot of political jockeying and terminology, so I hope the new show takes a similar route.
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Old February 22 2014, 05:43 AM   #578
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Re: New Star Wars animated show "Rebels" coming fall 2014

Yeah, and given the track record of the show's creators ... I'm going to give it the benefit of the doubt.
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Old February 22 2014, 05:46 AM   #579
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Re: New Star Wars animated show "Rebels" coming fall 2014

I just watched all the character featurettes and I'm really looking forward to this show. I like that it's going to be a large cast of characters rather than an anthology series with only 1-2 characters at a time the way Clone Wars was. That was fine at the time, but I'm glad this is going to have a different structure.
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Old February 22 2014, 06:58 AM   #580
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Re: New Star Wars animated show "Rebels" coming fall 2014

Ancient Mariner wrote: View Post
CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
The curse of fans writing material is that they tend to regurgitate the cool beats from the original source material. If Vader's going to be engaging these characters directly, there's going to have to be a novel twist. Or he just kills them, which I doubt.
Well, I don't see too many opportunities for Vader to be engaging the heroes directly, with any regularity ... though I also don't see where anyone here is advocating specifically that kind of interaction, either. Furthermore, Filoni and his crew made quite a bit of hay out of referencing specific beats, lines, circumstances, etc. in TCW. Whether or not you think they were simply "regurgitating" those moments, or utilizing them in a fun way to advance the story and refer back to all six films in the saga is, certainly, open to interpretation.

But as far as I am concerned, they handled those references exceedingly well. To the point where I have little concern that depicting Vader on-screen in Rebels would undermine his character or the OT.
I could have done with fewer direct confrontations with Grievous. Grievous was established in the micro-series as a badass who could take out Jedi Masters. His lightsaber collection was earned. In some cases, that carried over into TCW, but in others not so much and in eye-rolling fashion. Ahsoka, having survived at least two direct confrontations with Grievous, is by implication one of the most skilled Jedi in the galaxy. Fortunately, at least in my book, she lived up to that distinction in the final episodes of season five.

This confrontation between Ahsoka and Grievous was pretty good:




Unfortunately, this one, the first, was much less so. Obviously, the writers hadn't yet seen The Incredibles, or they'd've learned the pitfalls of monologuing ():




cooleddie74 wrote: View Post
In other words, Leia aboard the Death Star all over again, only before Leia aboard the Death Star ever happens. Yeah, I hope the writers don't pen some episode where Vader has the crew in his sights, captures one or more of them and then we sit back and watch the incompetence of his supposed crack troops as the characters escape or get rescued. Then there's the obligatory "Vader balling up his fist and complaining" scene where he vows to destroy them all should their paths cross again.

Not too enthusiastic about that. They could do better, and the fewer "whew, that was a close call" encounters with Darth Vader the better for everybody.
Yeah, that scenario seems like a temptation. Some heroes are captured, but kept alive, because they have to be interrogated, which—wait for it—creates the opportunity for escape. Lucas already went there in the OT right out of the gate, and even covered the trope of the bad guys letting the heroes escape just to track them back to base. Next film, some heroes were captured to be used as bait to lure another. The Rebels writers are going to have to be really creative to come up with something to top ANH and TESB, if they are going to revisit the captured heroes trope, but it will still have the handicap of occurring chronologically before the OT, which risks undermining the OT. Best not to go there at all, and instead come up with something fundamentally new, especially if Vader is involved.*

* - Another temptation (gods, I can see it now): They decide to "explain" how it is that Vader knows in ANH that Obi-Wan isn't planning to escape, by having Rebels characters employ a similar gambit on Vader. See, Vader knows, because he's seen it before! Get it?

However, all six films in the PT and OT have involved rescues of main characters (Queen Amidala by Qui-Gon & Obi-Wan; Obi-Wan by Anakin & Padmé & Mace & Yoda; Palpatine by Obi-Wan and Anakin; Leia by everybody else but losing Obi-Wan; everybody else except R2 by Luke but failing to rescue Han; Han & Leia by the Ewoks), so maybe captures and rescues are obligatory in Star Wars.

cooleddie74 wrote: View Post
I'm with you on wanting to see more politics and the development of the Empire into the institution we saw for the very first time in A New Hope. I'd like to see the Senate chamber in action all over again, this time as the Imperial Senate. Some Imperial bureaucrats and moffs rushing about trying to determine which official gets to rule which sliver or chunk of territory and how it will benefit them and their own ambitions.

I know this is an animated show on a Disney network that skews towards kids, boys and action, but some texture and depth won't hurt a series like this. Given all the kid-friendly elements in Episode I we still got treated to a lot of political jockeying and terminology, so I hope the new show takes a similar route.
Political machinations would be nice. I hope there are at least a few episodes spotlighting that. One of my favorite scenes in Star Wars is the first scene aboard the Death Star.
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Old February 22 2014, 12:55 PM   #581
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Re: New Star Wars animated show "Rebels" coming fall 2014

And in Episode I the machinations to get Chancellor Valorum tossed from office so Palpatine can get himself elected to replace him were interesting to watch. As far back as the reference materials published prior to the original release of The Phantom Menace George Lucas said that Senator Palpatine of the Old Republic took advantage of political chaos to get himself elected Chancellor (or as one authorized visual guide called it back in the late nineties, "Senate President") and then later used the powers of the office to proclaim the Empire and make himself Emperor.

I know a lot of fans screamed bloody murder at the mention of trade blockades, embargoes and Senate votes in the first Prequel and said they had no place in a Star Wars movie, but those are the fans who either get bored much too easily or have a complete misunderstanding of the history of the Lucas universe. Background materials had long stated that the Emperor took advantage of political crises within the Old Republic to gain more and more power until the creation of the Galactic Empire and the destruction of the Jedi could be accomplished, so political machinations and power plays have been a part of the Saga as far back as it's existed whether we saw it on the big screen or not. Telling Lucas to leave the politics out of his universe is almost as bad as telling Paramount to stop mentioning warp drive in Star Trek.
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Old February 22 2014, 01:18 PM   #582
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Re: New Star Wars animated show "Rebels" coming fall 2014

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
I could have done with fewer direct confrontations with Grievous. Grievous was established in the micro-series as a badass who could take out Jedi Masters. His lightsaber collection was earned. In some cases, that carried over into TCW, but in others not so much and in eye-rolling fashion. Ahsoka, having survived at least two direct confrontations with Grievous, is by implication one of the most skilled Jedi in the galaxy. Fortunately, at least in my book, she lived up to that distinction in the final episodes of season five.

This confrontation between Ahsoka and Grievous was pretty good:



Unfortunately, this one, the first, was much less so. Obviously, the writers hadn't yet seen The Incredibles, or they'd've learned the pitfalls of monologuing ():
I actually thought the "duel" in the second clip was handled well in the sense that it was, basically, Ahsoka playing defense and running away every chance she got. Grievous' monologuing was excessive though. But, to be fair, that was an early season 1 episode (Duel of the Droids). And you can see, by that Season 5 clip, they had learned a few things about lightsaber duels, at the very least.

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
However, all six films in the PT and OT have involved rescues of main characters (Queen Amidala by Qui-Gon & Obi-Wan; Obi-Wan by Anakin & Padmé & Mace & Yoda; Palpatine by Obi-Wan and Anakin; Leia by everybody else but losing Obi-Wan; everybody else except R2 by Luke but failing to rescue Han; Han & Leia by the Ewoks), so maybe captures and rescues are obligatory in Star Wars.
Yep, they pretty much are. I'd expect to see at least a few of them in Rebels.

cooleddie74 wrote: View Post
And in Episode I the machinations to get Chancellor Valorum tossed from office so Palpatine can get himself elected to replace him were interesting to watch. As far back as the reference materials published prior to the original release of The Phantom Menace George Lucas said that Senator Palpatine of the Old Republic took advantage of political chaos to get himself elected Chancellor (or as one authorized visual guide called it back in the late nineties, "Senate President") and then later used the powers of the office to proclaim the Empire and make himself Emperor.

I know a lot of fans screamed bloody murder at the mention of trade blockades, embargoes and Senate votes in the first Prequel and said they had no place in a Star Wars movie, but those are the fans who either get bored much too easily or have a complete misunderstanding of the history of the Lucas universe. Background materials had long stated that the Emperor took advantage of political crises within the Old Republic to gain more and more power until the creation of the Galactic Empire and the destruction of the Jedi could be accomplished, so political machinations and power plays have been a part of the Saga as far back as it's existed whether we saw it on the big screen or not. Telling Lucas to leave the politics out of his universe is almost as bad as telling Paramount to stop mentioning warp drive in Star Trek.
The political aspect of the story was one of the things I really enjoyed about TPM. TCW spent a lot of time delving into it, too. There's no reason why Rebels can't also do a fair bit it, while maintaining a more action-oriented direction. Indeed, if this is all about the beginnings of the Rebellion, the series will be sorely lacking without the political implications of the action. The character of Sabine, though, hints at a glimpse of those implications. Her leaving graffiti behind is certainly done, in part, to send a message to the Imperials ... and everyone else in the galaxy.
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Old February 22 2014, 01:44 PM   #583
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Re: New Star Wars animated show "Rebels" coming fall 2014

Reverend wrote:
Speaking of Vader, assuming he ever shows up, what do we think the odds are that they'll be able to afford James Earl Jones? It's such an iconic voice that I have a hard time thinking anyone else could pull it off...
They'll probably go the Chad Vader route, but I would of course prefer Jones.
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Old February 22 2014, 06:44 PM   #584
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Re: New Star Wars animated show "Rebels" coming fall 2014

If Jones is healthy and doesn't mind, why not....Disney's pockets are deeper than the Marianas Trench and if they want the original voice of Darth Vader they can probably afford him. I very much doubt he asks Jude Law or Clooney prices for any of his TV projects.
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Old February 22 2014, 07:23 PM   #585
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Re: New Star Wars animated show "Rebels" coming fall 2014

cooleddie74 wrote: View Post
If Jones is healthy and doesn't mind, why not....Disney's pockets are deeper than the Marianas Trench and if they want the original voice of Darth Vader they can probably afford him.
Well, TV shows based on Disney films generally bring back the majority of the film casts, more so than most animated spinoffs from other studios, but sometimes they do use doubles for the bigger stars -- Dan Castellaneta replacing Robin Williams in Aladdin, Kevin Schon and later Quinton Flynn replacing Nathan Lane in Timon & Pumbaa, Patrick Warburton replacing Tim Allen in Buzz Lightyear of Star Command. So there's no guarantee.

After all, Lucasfilm had pockets as deep as Disney's, and they recast most of the leads in The Clone Wars. The only movie actors who reprised their roles in TCW on a regular basis were Anthony Daniels, Ahmed Best, and Matthew Wood, with a few guest appearances such as Samuel L. Jackson (in the pilot movie, with T.C. Carson replacing him in the series), Pernilla August, and Liam Neeson. (And allegedly Peter Mayhew as Chewbacca, but that seems unlikely.)
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