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Old February 18 2014, 01:16 AM   #466
Hartzilla2007
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Re: New Star Wars animated show "Rebels" coming fall 2014

Mr Light wrote: View Post
dark sider who could bring down an entire Star Destroyer all on his own
To be fair that probably had more to do with video game force users seeming to be more powerful than the film force users than any Gary Stuism.
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Old February 18 2014, 03:08 AM   #467
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Re: New Star Wars animated show "Rebels" coming fall 2014

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
Mr Light wrote: View Post
dark sider who could bring down an entire Star Destroyer all on his own
To be fair that probably had more to do with video game force users seeming to be more powerful than the film force users than any Gary Stuism.
Luke's own force powers in the EU have been as powerful as the plot needed. In the later Zahn books he even talks disdainfully about the 'flashy' things he'd done in the past books.
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Old February 18 2014, 04:44 AM   #468
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Re: New Star Wars animated show "Rebels" coming fall 2014

He is suppose to have the potential to be twice as powerful as the Emperor according to Lucas.
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Old February 18 2014, 05:24 AM   #469
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Re: New Star Wars animated show "Rebels" coming fall 2014

Much as I love all powerful Luke... I think making him more powerful than Yoda or Siidous is a little dumb... those two were the ultimate bad asses...
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Old February 18 2014, 05:57 AM   #470
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Re: New Star Wars animated show "Rebels" coming fall 2014

Mr Light wrote: View Post
Much as I love all powerful Luke... I think making him more powerful than Yoda or Siidous is a little dumb... those two were the ultimate bad asses...
I choose to believe that, in time, Anakin could have been more powerful than both the Emperor and Yoda, if only he hadn't been gimped by the Emperor, who had the advantage of a head start and thereby, by his visions, forewarning and the presence of mind to nullify Anakin's power.

In his old age and wisdom, as Anakin's son and with the aid of three or more Jedi Force ghosts, it is therefore extremely plausible that Luke's power could rival that of any known Jedi or Sith.
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Old February 18 2014, 06:18 AM   #471
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Re: New Star Wars animated show "Rebels" coming fall 2014

Mr Light wrote: View Post
Much as I love all powerful Luke... I think making him more powerful than Yoda or Siidous is a little dumb... those two were the ultimate bad asses...
Then again look what Luke did with what three days of training?
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Old February 18 2014, 11:33 AM   #472
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Re: New Star Wars animated show "Rebels" coming fall 2014

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Why would anyone expect Star Wars not to be for kids? It's always been for kids. It's a pastiche of Flash Gordon and Saturday matinee adventure serials and classic adventure movies, the things Lucas enjoyed when he was a kid. It's a clever enough pastiche, at least in the original trilogy, to have appeal for adults, but it's always been aimed largely at a young audience.

I mean, I doubt there are very many Star Wars fans, or genre fans in general, who only saw it for the first time when they were in their 20s or 30s. It's something you discover when you're young. That's why its fans are so loyal and passionate -- because it's been with them for most of their lives and was a formative experience for them.


It's not just for kids, it has its niches. I would not want for example a Sith centric story kiddified.
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Old February 18 2014, 12:20 PM   #473
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Re: New Star Wars animated show "Rebels" coming fall 2014

I think the best way to describe the Star Wars universe is "family friendly under a majority of circumstances." It's true that a significant chunk of the Saga and the wider Lucas universe including the several TV series can be viewed by those "from nine to ninety" and everybody in-between, but it has a dark side and some very shadowy and complex undertones.

People having their throats psychokinetically strangled and snapped clean in half. Han being painfully tortured on an electrical rack by Darth Vader. Assassination and murder attempts. Anakin's merciless slaughter of an entire camp of Tusken Raiders after his mother - who was beaten, tortured and who knows what else by some of those same Sand People - dies bruised and bloodied in his arms as he watches. Anakin converting to the Sith, becoming Darth Vader and murdering all the Jedi in the Temple, including little kids hiding behind chairs. What happens to Anakin (now Vader) on Mustafar.

So yeah, it's generally the kind of material that kids can watch and have a lot of fun with as the original movie and other later chapters in the Lucas universe have demonstrated, but it's not specifically aimed at them. For all the child- and family-friendly fluff and characters over the decades, there's been some pretty dark and emotionally complicated stuff in there too. And I won't even get into the Luke-pining-for-and-kissing-his-own-sister thing.
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Old February 18 2014, 01:39 PM   #474
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Re: New Star Wars animated show "Rebels" coming fall 2014

<< I choose to believe that, in time, Anakin could have been more powerful than both the Emperor and Yoda, if only he hadn't been gimped by the Emperor, who had the advantage of a head start and thereby, by his visions, forewarning and the presence of mind to nullify Anakin's power. >>

Obviously we know that Anakin had more midis than Yoda, but Yoda had the benefit of 900 years of experience. And Sidious had the advantage of the deepest knowledge of the Sith arts. In the context of the movies, Anakin is never shown doing anything close to the power levels that Yoda and Sidious demonstrate.

I mean hell, if Anakin is so damn powerful how the hell did Obi-Wan ever stand up to him in a fight? Why didn't Anakin just Force blast him into the lava or Force choke him if he's ten times stronger in the Force?
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Old February 18 2014, 02:01 PM   #475
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Re: New Star Wars animated show "Rebels" coming fall 2014

Mr. Adventure wrote: View Post
Mr Light wrote: View Post
Much as I love all powerful Luke... I think making him more powerful than Yoda or Siidous is a little dumb... those two were the ultimate bad asses...
Then again look what Luke did with what three days of training?
It's never been nailed down exactly how long Luke was on Dagobah and how long it took the Falcon to get to Bespin.

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
Mr Light wrote: View Post
Much as I love all powerful Luke... I think making him more powerful than Yoda or Siidous is a little dumb... those two were the ultimate bad asses...
I choose to believe that, in time, Anakin could have been more powerful than both the Emperor and Yoda, if only he hadn't been gimped by the Emperor, who had the advantage of a head start and thereby, by his visions, forewarning and the presence of mind to nullify Anakin's power.

In his old age and wisdom, as Anakin's son and with the aid of three or more Jedi Force ghosts, it is therefore extremely plausible that Luke's power could rival that of any known Jedi or Sith.
I think Lucas has been quoted as saying that losing a few limbs and getting flame-broiled hampered Anakin's connection to the Force somewhat. After that he never could be as powerful as he might've.
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Old February 18 2014, 02:41 PM   #476
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Re: New Star Wars animated show "Rebels" coming fall 2014

cooleddie74 wrote: View Post
I think the best way to describe the Star Wars universe is "family friendly under a majority of circumstances." It's true that a significant chunk of the Saga and the wider Lucas universe including the several TV series can be viewed by those "from nine to ninety" and everybody in-between, but it has a dark side and some very shadowy and complex undertones.
...
So yeah, it's generally the kind of material that kids can watch and have a lot of fun with as the original movie and other later chapters in the Lucas universe have demonstrated, but it's not specifically aimed at them. For all the child- and family-friendly fluff and characters over the decades, there's been some pretty dark and emotionally complicated stuff in there too. And I won't even get into the Luke-pining-for-and-kissing-his-own-sister thing.
Maybe. But it started out as something family-friendly and appealing to kids. The rest would never have existed if not for the original movie and the way it captured the imagination of a generation of children. So to be disdainful of a Star Wars production that's accessible to children is to be ungrateful to the foundations of the franchise.

The problem with genre fandom today is that we've been fighting so hard for so long to prove that genre fiction isn't just for kids, that it can be respectable and worthwhile material for adults as well, that we've ended up taking things to the opposite extreme, where we're so actively hostile to the idea of anything that appeals to children that we insist on wanting our movies and shows and comics to be as adult and dark and serious as possible. Which takes a lot of the fun out of them and makes it harder to bring a new generation of fans into the fold.

Now that genre fiction has won respectability, now that we don't have to worry so much about being taken seriously anymore, I think we shouldn't be so self-conscious. We should remember that there's nothing bad about children and nothing bad about stories that are made with them in mind. Children have rich and unfettered imaginations and aren't as locked down by preconceptions and expectations as adults. That's the kind of mentality that makes sci-fi and fantasy possible. It shouldn't be scorned or looked down upon. It should be cherished.
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Old February 18 2014, 03:56 PM   #477
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Re: New Star Wars animated show "Rebels" coming fall 2014

Mr Light wrote:
I mean hell, if Anakin is so damn powerful how the hell did Obi-Wan ever stand up to him in a fight? Why didn't Anakin just Force blast him into the lava or Force choke him if he's ten times stronger in the Force?
He isn't, hence the phrase "in time". In terms of actualized power they're roughly equivalent, which I think is the point of the "Force push standoff" scene. You also have to take Anakin's immaturity and mental state into account. Even Darth Maul failed against Obi-Wan due to his overconfidence and tendency to showboat ( something he had already been chided for by Palpatine on prior occasions ).
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Old February 18 2014, 07:40 PM   #478
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Re: New Star Wars animated show "Rebels" coming fall 2014

Anakin was flush and overcome with uncertain emotions and anger at the time he dueled Obi-Wan on Mustafar, torn over what he had just done at the Jedi Temple and to the Separatists. He just plain wasn't focused in any constructive way and didn't have the time to gather his powers for the fight with Obi-Wan. He literally leapt into battle with angry ferocity after seeing his wife and the mother of his child crumpled to the ground at his own hand. He wasn't exactly as prepared for a life-or-death lightsaber duel as he might have been otherwise.

I believe Anakin was a lot more powerful than his former Master, but Obi-Wan arrived on Mustafar with a singular if unfortunate focus: destroying his old friend and apprentice to try to save lives and hopefully the Republic in the process. He had the entire journey from Coruscant to Mustafar to meditate, think and prepare. Anakin was just one disjointed, angry mess, which allowed his old Master to get the upper hand and defeat him.
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Old February 18 2014, 10:51 PM   #479
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Re: New Star Wars animated show "Rebels" coming fall 2014

Anakin was also over-confident. He thought he was even more powerful than Palpatine and that he was going to rule the Galaxy with Padme.
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Old February 18 2014, 10:58 PM   #480
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Re: New Star Wars animated show "Rebels" coming fall 2014

Hound of UIster wrote: View Post
Anakin was also over-confident. He thought he was even more powerful than Palpatine and that he was going to rule the Galaxy with Padme.
Well, to be fair, the reason he felt that way is because Palpatine kept telling him how powerful he was.
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