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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old May 24 2013, 07:40 PM   #1
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Orci: Why This Certain Villain

Star Trek into Darkness Co-writer Roberto Orci explained why a certain villain was included in the film. According to Orci, the villain was a result of wanting to relate to Star Trek history. Spoilers behind the cut for those who haven’t yet seen the film. “[Damon Lindelof] argued for Khan from the beginning and I [...]

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Old May 24 2013, 07:49 PM   #2
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Re: Orci: Why This Certain Villain

Good
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Old May 24 2013, 11:58 PM   #3
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Re: Orci: Why This Certain Villain

Interesting. I think some people need to relax, these guys know what they're doing.
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Old May 25 2013, 01:35 AM   #4
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Re: Orci: Why This Certain Villain

Anything that gives me Benedict Cumberbatch saying "I will walk over your cold corpses" can only be a good thing.
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Old May 25 2013, 01:51 AM   #5
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Re: Orci: Why This Certain Villain

I think they wrote something without Khan like they said and then after he was inserted by Lindelof the other parts of the script that reference Trek history were also added but with a twist.
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Old May 25 2013, 02:09 AM   #6
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Re: Orci: Why This Certain Villain

If they were so intent on having Khan, why all the secrecy? They should have mentioned it in the trailers, it would guarantee more bums in seats. The John Harrison stuff, the Blue Harvest secrecy, probably backfired on them a bit
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Old May 25 2013, 12:23 PM   #7
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Re: Orci: Why This Certain Villain

^I agree. In the end, nuKhan was a well executed villain. Different enough from the old universe to make it very fresh, yet enough similarities remained to make him very identifiable. I don't think keeping his identity a secret was necessary and if properly played up may have helped the film be more successful.
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Old May 25 2013, 08:32 PM   #8
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Re: Orci: Why This Certain Villain

YES! That is the argument to make. To many people are trying to make the "why do Khan at all" argument. There is an easy answer to that question. These are the first guys to reboot this franchise, you always play with the best toys first. This is a common theme in Comic Books when a new team takes over Batman OF COURSE they do their own take on Joker and Penguin and yadda yadda.

The real argument is why did they go with the Henri Ducard fake identity gimmick? Clearly that is why they never reveled the real villains name in trailers and such even though it was a badly kept secret.

Ultimately though Orci and Kurtzman said on the Empire Online Podcast that they can't keep people away from spoilers but they aren't going to bend to them just because they chose to read spoilers ahead of time. They said the Khan reveal was the reward for those who chose not to be spoiled ahead of time.
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Old May 25 2013, 08:45 PM   #9
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Re: Orci: Why This Certain Villain

Cinema Geekly wrote: View Post
The real argument is why did they go with the Henri Ducard fake identity gimmick? Clearly that is why they never reveled the real villains name in trailers and such even though it was a badly kept secret.
I didn't know who Henri Ducard or Ras Al Ghul was, and the fake identity gimmick was a general theme in the film. Theatrics and deception, and everlasting symbols that cannot be killed. Wayne has a fake identity, his master has one as well, and both Batman and Ras Al Ghul are those everlasting symbols.


But with nuKhan, it's just one mystery for the sake of mystery. It doesn't even have a purpose in the film, it has only a purpose on the other side of the 4th wall, to play with the anticipation during promotion.
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Old May 25 2013, 09:59 PM   #10
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Re: Orci: Why This Certain Villain

Well said. Almost right after Kirk and "Harrison" meet face to face, Khan says his true name. He is not hiding it at all. Its Admiral Marcus who is. I do not think it would have changed the drama to have it revealed in the promotion.

They are naive to think this was ever a real secret. All the secrecy alone was a huge sign that the reveal would mean something to most viewers and not just fans. Anyone other than Khan would not have been known to most people. So "hiding" it was a huge tell itself.
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Old May 25 2013, 10:29 PM   #11
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Re: Orci: Why This Certain Villain

I doubt saying "it's Khan" woud have put "more butts in seats" since the majority of the moviegoing public probably doesn't know or care who Khan is.
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Old May 25 2013, 11:09 PM   #12
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Re: Orci: Why This Certain Villain

Cinema Geekly wrote: View Post
The real argument is why did they go with the Henri Ducard fake identity gimmick? Clearly that is why they never reveled the real villains name in trailers and such even though it was a badly kept secret.
Maybe the months and months of free hype generated in the fan community in all those debates we had about who we thought/hoped/dreaded Harrison really was? (I mean... there are threads in this very fora, from barely a week prior to release, presenting arguments that Harrison was Gary 7, Gary Mitchell, a genetically engineered tribble, Arne Darvin, etc.) Seriously... months and months of utterly free promotion doesn't warrant asking "why", but "why not".

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
But with nuKhan, it's just one mystery for the sake of mystery. It doesn't even have a purpose in the film...
WTF?!? I'm pretty sure that Starfleet giving Khan a false identity probably had something to do with not wanting to advertise the fact that they had found, freed, and were working with a notorious historical war criminal. That seems a more than ample in-universe reason to me.
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Old May 26 2013, 04:09 AM   #13
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Re: Orci: Why This Certain Villain

Eh, for those who are wondering why keep it a secret, I agree with Abrams' take on it: there are very few surprises left in movies these days. It's shocking and wonderful when you get that "Oh shit!" moment. I've seen it several times and the reaction each time was absolutely great- gasps and people saying "OOOH!". I was ruined on accident because someone wrote a big spoiler on a UK site that had absolutely nothing to do with Star Trek, so I was upset that I didn't get to have that reaction. Really, the last time I had that reaction in a movie theater was watching Fellowship of the Ring for the first time. So I'm glad they didn't spoil it as part of a marketing campaign. Word gets around eventually.
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