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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old June 5 2013, 01:03 PM   #136
Locutus of Bored
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Re: What's Up with the Warp Core (SPOILERS Into Darkness)

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
Does anybody know what procedure the script said Spock was doing?
It's understandably vague (since that's all a script and usually a film requires), referring to the reactor room, control panel, manual control, blue energy arcing around Spock, and damping rods.

http://www.imsdb.com/scripts/Star-Tr...h-of-Khan.html

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Old June 5 2013, 01:09 PM   #137
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Re: What's Up with the Warp Core (SPOILERS Into Darkness)

ATimson wrote: View Post
My rationalization is that it's not needed for the thrusters, but for the impulse engines - that they couldn't make orbit on thrusters alone, and that the impulse reactor was taken out by the damage to the ship. They needed the warp core online to drive the impulse engines in lieu of it.
That makes sense, assuming it's possible to direct warp power to the impulse engines.


CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
Does anybody know what procedure the script said Spock was doing?
Locutus covered most of it (for instance, the reference to "damping rods" as if it were a fission reactor), but in one draft of the script, after Scotty says "I've got to take the mains offline," he adds: "The energizer's shaken loose and I can't get in there to fix her."

I would assume that the intention of the scriptwriters was for the main reactor itself, aka the energizer as it was repeatedly called in the film, to be closed off in a separate, radiation-shielded room. However, due to the film's low budget, they couldn't radically rebuild the existing engineering set to fit the script, so they best they could do was stick in that little booth on the side of the existing set and pretend it had something to do with the engines.


In contrast, what we got in STID was in many ways the exact opposite of that. Rather than vaguely and suggestively doing nothing sensible inside a pedestal that's way too small for the gloves he's wearing, Kirk gets up on something bigger than he is and puts his whole body into it; at least we can see on some level that something is being moved back into place.
As if he's fixing an energizer that's been shaken loose...
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Old June 5 2013, 01:36 PM   #138
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Re: What's Up with the Warp Core (SPOILERS Into Darkness)

throwback wrote: View Post
The impulse deck was wrecked. Auxiliary power was out. Thus, no thrusters.
You have no way of knowing how the systems on this ship work.
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Old June 5 2013, 01:39 PM   #139
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Re: What's Up with the Warp Core (SPOILERS Into Darkness)

"Energizer" was originally a word used to obscure another point of technology in the film - someone objected to Kirk's naval command "stop engines" earlier in the movie, saying that it was unlikely that the Enterprise's engines would have an "all stop mode." The phrase became "stop energizers."
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Old June 5 2013, 02:43 PM   #140
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Re: What's Up with the Warp Core (SPOILERS Into Darkness)

Thanks!
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Old June 5 2013, 03:07 PM   #141
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Re: What's Up with the Warp Core (SPOILERS Into Darkness)

Christopher wrote: View Post
I would assume that the intention of the scriptwriters was for the main reactor itself, aka the energizer as it was repeatedly called in the film, to be closed off in a separate, radiation-shielded room. However, due to the film's low budget, they couldn't radically rebuild the existing engineering set to fit the script, so they best they could do was stick in that little booth on the side of the existing set and pretend it had something to do with the engines.
Since the "main energizer's out" and Scotty said the "energizer's bypassed like a Christmas tree," maybe the booth in engineering was an auxiliary access point for the system, and there's a more elaborate room off somewhere else.
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Old June 5 2013, 04:21 PM   #142
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Re: What's Up with the Warp Core (SPOILERS Into Darkness)

Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
Since the "main energizer's out" and Scotty said the "energizer's bypassed like a Christmas tree," maybe the booth in engineering was an auxiliary access point for the system, and there's a more elaborate room off somewhere else.
Well, that's hard to reconcile with the shot looking down the intermix shaft in TMP (when Kirk first enters the engine room). However, I don't think we saw that angle in any later movie, so maybe by TWOK, some additional engine components had been accreted onto the intermix shaft on the lower levels of the engineering complex. This addition could be the "energizer," maybe something that intensifies the warp reaction or that adds a step that makes it more efficient, but is integral enough to the modified engine that it won't operate without the energizer online. And either the interior of the energizer is normally immersed in radiation from the matter-antimatter reaction when the engines are active, or the damage when it was "shaken loose" caused it to be flooded with radiation from the reaction. The "reactor room" could've been a monitor station and a maintenance access for use when the drive was shut down.

Still, looking at the script alone, I do think that if TWOK's makers hadn't been saddled by the existing set design and the budget limitations, they would've designed and built something where it was clear that the thing Spock was fixing was the main engine itself, and that said engine was contained within radiation barriers keeping it separate from the rest of engineering. Which, in fact, is pretty much what Into Darkness gave us.
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Old June 7 2013, 03:18 AM   #143
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Re: What's Up with the Warp Core (SPOILERS Into Darkness)

I know this is discussion about the new movie's engine core but reference has been made to the refit Enterprise warp systems in TMP and TWOK so I figured I'd jump in and give my 2 cents.

I've been puzzled very much as of late with that room in TWOK. Call me obsessive but I've re-read the book, looked at the script and rewatched engine room scenes over again. I've also looked at several different schematics and blueprint of the refit design. Here's my thoughts on the matter. One possible explanation I can come up with is that the "main enerigizer" refers to the horizontal intermix shaft that leads to the warp nacelles. When Reliant first attacks Enterprise there is a massive coolant leak in engineering along with an explosion along the horizontal shaft. An isolation door comes down separating the damaged section from the main engineering. That same door cuts off the feed to the horizontal intermix shaft to the warp engines. Let us assume that most of the main power feeds come from taps further down the shaft as well. Since the matter/anti-matter reaction required to "energize" the main/warp engines has been cut off it stands to reason that the shaft maybe considered the main/warp energizer.

Now on to the reactor room. I think this is the "main energizer bypass" that Scotty is referred to on the bridge just before they were trying to outrun Reliant to the nebula. "The energizer bypass is like a Christmas tree..." What they could restore of main power was being routed through that bypass reactor which has dilithium inside to focus the power flow. If you look at the cap that Spock removes there are a number of objects spinning inside it. Those maybe the crystals. The damage to Enterprise was catastophic and the bypass was probably only meant as a short term solution. Unfortunately it was being asked to do more than it was capable of for the circumstances and once overtaxed it overloaded. I get the impression from one line in the movie and the novel that it was being used to power the main engines for a time but after another crippling shot from Reliant the engines had to be taken off line again to keep the radiation from the pedestal from overwhelming main engineering. In the novel there was reference to the bypass going critical if the main engines weren't taken off line.

Spock entered the room to realign the bypass circuits, i.e. the crystals to get the main engines back up and running. No human could have tolerated the about of radiation that had been released from the damage done earlier. Scotty actually had been inside the room just before to shut down the main engines and the short time he was in there caused him to pass out.

Once again these are just my thoughts on what that room is and how it's used. I know it might be a long shot but it's the most plausible explanation to me. I know some this goes against what's been published so far in manuals and online. As to how the power is distributed? Hey I'm still working on that one. Thanks for the discussion!

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Old June 7 2013, 03:56 AM   #144
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Re: What's Up with the Warp Core (SPOILERS Into Darkness)

FedBCH wrote: View Post
Now on to the reactor room. I think this is the "main energizer bypass" that Scotty is referred to on the bridge just before they were trying to outrun Reliant to the nebula. "The energizer bypass is like a Christmas tree..." What they could restore of main power was being routed through that bypass reactor which has dilithium inside to focus the power flow.
Actually he said "The energizer's bypassed like a Christmas tree." Which I take to mean that it had so many bypass cables attached to it that it was like a tree wrapped in strings of lights.
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Old June 7 2013, 04:11 AM   #145
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Re: What's Up with the Warp Core (SPOILERS Into Darkness)

True that is the correct line. I was paraphrasing from what I remember of the movie and the novel. In the novel, Mr. Scott refers to the overload warnings being lit up like Christmas tree and the main energizer bypasses wouldn't take much strain.
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Old June 7 2013, 03:54 PM   #146
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Re: What's Up with the Warp Core (SPOILERS Into Darkness)

Admiral Buzzkill,

We are told explicitly that the warp engines and auxiliary power were off -line. From visual evidence, I can infer that the impulse engines are off-line because they are not "lit" and an inspection of the damage reveals that the deck has been hit.

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Old June 7 2013, 06:25 PM   #147
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Re: What's Up with the Warp Core (SPOILERS Into Darkness)

Didn't the Enterprise need the impulse engines to reach orbit in Tomorrow Is Yesterday when it was thrown into Earth's upper atmosphere, they weren't using thrusters.

In the movie, the Enterprise was pretty messed up, it was already hitting the atmosphere so thrusters alone probably wouldn't have stopped it, and maybe they need the core to provide power to the impulse engines that were still functioning since their own power source was compromised.


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Old June 7 2013, 07:48 PM   #148
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Re: What's Up with the Warp Core (SPOILERS Into Darkness)

I'm just thinking of what was shown in the movie -- that once Kirk got the warp core back on line, a bunch of thrusters started firing from the underside of the primary hull. Maybe I'm misremembering the order of events, but I got the impression that they weren't able to use the thrusters until the core was reactivated. Which struck me as an odd way to portray it.
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Old June 7 2013, 07:57 PM   #149
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Re: What's Up with the Warp Core (SPOILERS Into Darkness)

The Thrusters might run on main power, redirecting impulse power to various spots on the ship for thrust.
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Old June 7 2013, 08:18 PM   #150
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Re: What's Up with the Warp Core (SPOILERS Into Darkness)

I assumed that without the ship's warp field, the thrusters would be insufficient to slow or correct the Enterprise's descent. Once the warp reactor is fixed, we see the warp engines begin to turn as power is restored, generating the mass reduction field necessary to make the thrusters worthwhile.
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