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Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old May 21 2013, 09:34 PM   #121
sj4iy
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Re: What did you like/dislike about Into Darkness (Spoilers)

Amasov wrote: View Post
The soundtrack.

I just don't think Michael Giacchino is a good composer at all. His music to both movies just lacks the emotional depth needed. I also have to say, I really hate his main theme. I was really hoping for more of the TOS theme to appear, but it's hardly anywhere.

---------

I found this on YouTube where someone inserted a bit of the score from Star Trek VI. I think it works so much better.
TWOK music you put up sounds like a mix of a Star Wars march and ET. It just screams 80s to me, and I don't really find much sustained emotion in it.

The last Giacchino Star Trek soundtrack wasn't very good, being repetitive, but this one has a lot of variety in it, and I think the piano really adds to the sadness of the scenes. Could there be more note variation? Sure there could, but I find that this does convey the emotion I felt when watching the movie.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not comparing it to the LotR soundtracks, which have the best use of leifmotifs since Wagner, nor is it a Gladiator soundtrack, which could pull and sway your emotions, but it is a pretty good soundtrack.

However, you used an example from the previous film when talking about this one, so here's a good example from this soundtrack:



It goes from sadness to anger to evil and sums up the feelings of that scene without any dialogue until the very end. My criteria for a good soundtrack is being able to listen to it beginning to end and place exactly what is happening during that piece of music. If it can tell the story without pictures, I enjoy it.

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Old May 21 2013, 11:41 PM   #122
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Re: What did you like/dislike about Into Darkness (Spoilers)

my likes: the cast, most of the action scenes, the music.
my dislikes: everything else, including plot, story and characterization (or lack of)
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Old May 21 2013, 11:42 PM   #123
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Re: What did you like/dislike about Into Darkness (Spoilers)

sj4iy wrote: View Post
TWOK music you put up sounds like a mix of a Star Wars march and ET. It just screams 80s to me, and I don't really find much sustained emotion in it.

The last Giacchino Star Trek soundtrack wasn't very good, being repetitive, but this one has a lot of variety in it, and I think the piano really adds to the sadness of the scenes. Could there be more note variation? Sure there could, but I find that this does convey the emotion I felt when watching the movie.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not comparing it to the LotR soundtracks, which have the best use of leifmotifs since Wagner, nor is it a Gladiator soundtrack, which could pull and sway your emotions, but it is a pretty good soundtrack.

However, you used an example from the previous film when talking about this one, so here's a good example from this soundtrack:



It goes from sadness to anger to evil and sums up the feelings of that scene without any dialogue until the very end. My criteria for a good soundtrack is being able to listen to it beginning to end and place exactly what is happening during that piece of music. If it can tell the story without pictures, I enjoy it.
Sounds like something a kid who is considered really good by his friends in high school would come up with.

He is a really dull, unimaginative composer, sorry. He is not in the same studio as Goldsmith or Horner, and not to be mentioned with Williams. I wish it were not so. Seriously, there are a ton of music majors in college who could write as well or better than this guy.
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Old May 22 2013, 12:44 AM   #124
sj4iy
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Re: What did you like/dislike about Into Darkness (Spoilers)

plynch wrote: View Post
sj4iy wrote: View Post
TWOK music you put up sounds like a mix of a Star Wars march and ET. It just screams 80s to me, and I don't really find much sustained emotion in it.

The last Giacchino Star Trek soundtrack wasn't very good, being repetitive, but this one has a lot of variety in it, and I think the piano really adds to the sadness of the scenes. Could there be more note variation? Sure there could, but I find that this does convey the emotion I felt when watching the movie.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not comparing it to the LotR soundtracks, which have the best use of leifmotifs since Wagner, nor is it a Gladiator soundtrack, which could pull and sway your emotions, but it is a pretty good soundtrack.

However, you used an example from the previous film when talking about this one, so here's a good example from this soundtrack:



It goes from sadness to anger to evil and sums up the feelings of that scene without any dialogue until the very end. My criteria for a good soundtrack is being able to listen to it beginning to end and place exactly what is happening during that piece of music. If it can tell the story without pictures, I enjoy it.
Sounds like something a kid who is considered really good by his friends in high school would come up with.

He is a really dull, unimaginative composer, sorry. He is not in the same studio as Goldsmith or Horner, and not to be mentioned with Williams. I wish it were not so. Seriously, there are a ton of music majors in college who could write as well or better than this guy.
Highlighting the areas where I said that he wasn't as good as some other composers, and that this specific movie soundtrack was pretty good.

Not many composers have the resumé of John Williams, but I contend that the best movie soundtracks belong to the LotR trilogy by Howard Shore because he layered the leifmotifs so beautifully and in such complex ways that they play off each other and create new themes. You could act it out without any dialogue and it would be perfectly understandable. A great example of his brilliance was in The Hobbit's "Old Friends", where the Hobbit theme (serene) and Gandalf's theme (mischievous) collide and slowly the Hobbit's theme starts to change with uncertainty.

I like John Williams in general, but honestly, his music stopped being inspiring to me years ago. He has Oscars and Oscar nominations galore, but I find that his music's best quality is that it is catchy. You recognize the music, but there's no depth to it. It just describes what you are seeing, plain and simple. That's why the themes are so good and the rest of the music is so forgettable. It's like Wagner- everyone can remember the overtures and a few minutes from a 4 hour opera but nothing else.

If you found the music of ID uninspiring, there's no problem with that. But I found it enjoyable and much better than the music from TWOK (because honestly, that music was just ripping from the better sci-fi soundtracks of the day). I doubt anyone is going to top Mozart in my book as best composer, but I enjoy many different types of music.
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Old May 22 2013, 01:59 AM   #125
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Re: What did you like/dislike about Into Darkness (Spoilers)

I love this score. I also like the 2009 movie score. In fact, walking in to see STiD, I was humming "Enterprising Young Men," which happens to be my favorite track from that film. I like Giacchino, and think he does a fantastic job on films that need tight, fast scores to go with the rapidly moving storyline. His scores have this sense of urgency to them, and I find that exciting and refreshing. I love a good John Williams score, but he's eminently predictable anymore, which can happen when you've been composing as long as he has, but I like something different and exciting. Giacchino's no Thomas Newman (my favorite composer), but he's certainly skilled at his craft.
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Old May 22 2013, 02:46 AM   #126
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Re: What did you like/dislike about Into Darkness (Spoilers)

J. Allen wrote: View Post
I love this score. I also like the 2009 movie score. In fact, walking in to see STiD, I was humming "Enterprising Young Men," which happens to be my favorite track from that film. I like Giacchino, and think he does a fantastic job on films that need tight, fast scores to go with the rapidly moving storyline. His scores have this sense of urgency to them, and I find that exciting and refreshing. I love a good John Williams score, but he's eminently predictable anymore, which can happen when you've been composing as long as he has, but I like something different and exciting. Giacchino's no Thomas Newman (my favorite composer), but he's certainly skilled at his craft.
I liked the new ST theme he composed in the last one, but I don't think he had enough scenery/emotional change in the story to work with. I think ID gave him more of a range to compose for, to really put emotion into, and for me, it definitely improved the second time around. But I agree, he's a good composer- otherwise he wouldn't keep getting projects Glad I'm not the only one who thinks Williams has stagnated in creativity.
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Old May 22 2013, 03:43 AM   #127
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Re: What did you like/dislike about Into Darkness (Spoilers)

I myself like soundtracks when they have something distinct or unique about them. After a while all the TNG+ soundtracks started to sound similar... I think Giacchino is doing well giving sound to this new breed of Star Trek. From the Into Darkness soundtrack, I keep having sections of Earthbound and Down playing in my head. Perhaps my brain is convinced those riffs are being evocative of Trek 2...

As to the movie I enjoyed a lot of it and have very few disagreements with the film, none of which detracted strongly from my enjoyment of it. I like the quicker pace of this new reboot era because I think it keeps things moving and exciting. I grew up in the late 80s-early 90s and the new reboot plays to what I enjoyed most about Trek in the adventure.

Considered as a whole I thought the show was a good "Episode" of a new Star Trek... yes, accepting that each "episode" is around two and a half hours long. Without focusing on the details and nitpikcing everything, I enjoyed the Ride, and would happily stay onboard for the next one.

I don't think I have one particular favorite scene in the movie or not yet, I've only completed it once. I liked all the kirk-spock interactions and yes, even liked the callback to Trek 2 because I was interested to see the differences in the role reversal. Seeing the Vengeance was incredible and somehow this misshapen ship ended up as one of my favorite ships in all of Star Trek because of how powerful and awe-inspiring (and blue) it is. Watching Cumberbatch as Khan was also particularly interesting to see how the actor took on the character and ran with the role, instead of trying to play to type (which is what makes Pine so successful as Kirk, IMO). Finally Scotty was pretty fun to watch as well, doing something other than babysitting the bowels of the Enterprise (and watching Checkov's goggled ham-handedness at the job was also pretty fun).

The one problem I have with this film is McCoy's logic in injecting the dead tribble with Khan's blood. Some line helping to establish his thinking to do that would have helped and not made it stand out so much. Something like staring at a screen with wiggly graphics and uttering, "what the hell?"- establishing that he saw something strange and wanted to test it. The way it came off in the films, you'd think it was on a whim.

All in all I'm really liking this reboot of Trek. It hasn't muted the glorious history of Star Trek, but it's a nice new chapter in the saga that I find enjoyable, fresher, and faster than all the Trek that's been on since, well, I was born.
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Old May 22 2013, 03:53 AM   #128
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Re: What did you like/dislike about Into Darkness (Spoilers)

Am I the only one who is glad that people aren't magically healed of every scrape and bruise? That was the one thing that I always disliked about the previous Treks...it never felt like people were in real danger. It took away from the excitement for me.
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Old May 22 2013, 01:26 PM   #129
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Re: What did you like/dislike about Into Darkness (Spoilers)

sj4iy wrote: View Post
Am I the only one who is glad that people aren't magically healed of every scrape and bruise? That was the one thing that I always disliked about the previous Treks...it never felt like people were in real danger. It took away from the excitement for me.
Yeah, in this one they save all the magic for death defying resurrections.
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Old May 22 2013, 01:38 PM   #130
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Re: What did you like/dislike about Into Darkness (Spoilers)

EnsignRicky wrote: View Post
sj4iy wrote: View Post
Am I the only one who is glad that people aren't magically healed of every scrape and bruise? That was the one thing that I always disliked about the previous Treks...it never felt like people were in real danger. It took away from the excitement for me.
Yeah, in this one they save all the magic for death defying resurrections.
Of course they do. It wouldn't be Star Trek if someone stayed dead. I can get behind freezing him and then using Khan's blood to revive him more than a magic device that makes planets out of nowhere bringing dead people back long after death, though.
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Old May 22 2013, 01:48 PM   #131
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Re: What did you like/dislike about Into Darkness (Spoilers)

The good:
They kept it fast paced and action packed. There are some fun character moments and some fun dialogue.

The bad:
almost everything else.
There was no need for the villain to be Khan, his whole plot as to how he gets involved is convoluted and idiotic
Section 31 seems to be operating much more openly now, hey?
Apparently humans and tribbles are compatible blood donors
genetically enhanced human blood does stupid things
technically Bones cured almost ALL DEATH by the end of this movie
Remaking an iconic scene never works out well
Another super ship? Really? What is that 3 movies in a row now?
Where was the rest of Starfleet when they returned to earth and started shooting at each other in Earth's orbit?
They can't beam Spock and Khan up, but CAN beam Uhura down to the same object they can't beam them up from?
You're a genetically enhanced intelligent being and the best idea you can come up with for hiding people is in explosives?
Why did they send the Enterprise out with all 72 torpedoes? They were only launching one, right? Also, it's to Marcus's advantage to split them up in case this plan goes wrong...

In short, there are SO many things wrong with this movie. It's a damn shame because the 2009 reboot was so fun and showed SO much promise.
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Old May 25 2013, 09:17 PM   #132
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Re: What did you like/dislike about Into Darkness (Spoilers)

Likes:

Cumberbatch - bad ass as Khan. Very menacing performance
Pine

Quinto

Eve

Urban

Pegg

Saldana

Awesome soundtrack. I liked the 2009 one a lot but this one was much better. More variety. The Klingon chorus during the Kronos scene was very cool. The piano playing during the London family scene was beautiful.

Great special effects, 3D was also awesome, nice action scenes, some morality but not of in the bash you over the head kind that Trek usually uses.

Dislikes:

It ended so quickly. time flew by.
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Old May 25 2013, 11:39 PM   #133
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Re: What did you like/dislike about Into Darkness (Spoilers)

sj4iy wrote: View Post
I can get behind freezing him and then using Khan's blood to revive him more than a magic device that makes planets out of nowhere bringing dead people back long after death, though.
Technically it was more like a clone that later had a katra downloaded into it.
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Old May 25 2013, 11:55 PM   #134
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Re: What did you like/dislike about Into Darkness (Spoilers)

Amasov wrote: View Post
I just don't think Michael Giacchino is a good composer at all. His music to both movies just lacks the emotional depth needed. I also have to say, I really hate his main theme.
Wow I didn't think I'd ever find someone who didn't like Giacchino's main nuTrek theme. It gives me goosebumps most times it's played.
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Old May 25 2013, 11:58 PM   #135
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Re: What did you like/dislike about Into Darkness (Spoilers)

Set Harth wrote: View Post
sj4iy wrote: View Post
I can get behind freezing him and then using Khan's blood to revive him more than a magic device that makes planets out of nowhere bringing dead people back long after death, though.
Technically it was more like a clone that later had a katra downloaded into it.
Still magic

I think one of the best parts of the movie that the movie just emphasizes so well is the very beginning- running and jumping off the cliff, then the Enterprise rising from the water and then getting Spock at the last minute. I especially love when Spock is just stunned to find himself on the Enterprise when he thought he'd be dead- the look on his face just says it all. Part of it is that instead of cutting straight to Kirk and McCoy running in, the camera swings around. And the music just works perfectly in this scene, the bombastic music changing to almost a tone of relief.
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