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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old May 16 2013, 07:38 PM   #1
foreverton
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Bob Orci's Comment: The Film Stood on its Own Without...[Spoilers]

...Khan. In a post to trekmovie last night, he said that they felt that the rogue Starfleet admiral story was strong enough to stand on its own without making Harrison Khan. They even played with the idea of having Harrison be a Federation criminal or some other seedy individual brought in by Marcus.

With that said, why use Khan at all? As I watched, I was thinking that they'd come up with the best villain since Khan....then it all fell apart. After a while, I even came around to enjoying the alternate universe Khan. It was the ripoff of the TWOK engine room scene and the yell that lost me.
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Old May 16 2013, 07:46 PM   #2
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Re: Bob Orci's Comment: The Film Stood on its Own Without...[Spoilers]

I rather liked it being Khan. I mean, as Harrison it was still wild, and fun, but suddenly we have Khan, and to me, that made it even better. Cumberbatch played that to the hilt, and I believe his portrayal of Khan is what carried the film. If he wouldn't have pulled off this brilliant, revenge filled superhuman, I don't think it would have worked quite as well. I loved it.
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Old May 16 2013, 07:53 PM   #3
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Re: Bob Orci's Comment: The Film Stood on its Own Without...[Spoilers]

Because it made the movie both more fun and more sellable.

I've been rooting for "Kha-a-a-a-an!" from early on.
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Old May 16 2013, 07:55 PM   #4
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Re: Bob Orci's Comment: The Film Stood on its Own Without...[Spoilers]

I wonder if Cumberbatch has anything in his contract about a second movie.
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Old May 16 2013, 07:57 PM   #5
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Re: Bob Orci's Comment: The Film Stood on its Own Without...[Spoilers]

He was great as Khan and I liked that they played him differently than we've seen him before. He was mainly concerned with saving his people, but was completely willing to kill anyone in his path to do so.
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Old May 16 2013, 08:00 PM   #6
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Re: Bob Orci's Comment: The Film Stood on its Own Without...[Spoilers]

I wonder how folks would have reacted had they just said from the get-go that it WAS Khan? It's just a thought I've had since seeing the movie.
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Old May 16 2013, 08:07 PM   #7
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Re: Bob Orci's Comment: The Film Stood on its Own Without...[Spoilers]

Here's the catch 22. A movie about a rogue Admiral with an agenda turns into "Insurrection". Nothing to really catch the crowd. If you turn the baddie into a name brand, however, it sells.

Do I believe Khan would submit to the powers of Starfleet and do their nefarious bidding? Not really. According to Trek-lore, he ruled a quarter of Asia in the late 20th century. But here, he's reduced to a non-Indian James Bond in the 23rd century? Nah.

That being said, I suppose it's an interesting "what if" scenario, but I think they picked the wrong character. Oh well. Such is life. I'm still really looking forward to seeing it this weekend.
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Old May 16 2013, 08:09 PM   #8
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Re: Bob Orci's Comment: The Film Stood on its Own Without...[Spoilers]

I liked it being Khan. A lot.
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Old May 16 2013, 08:10 PM   #9
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Re: Bob Orci's Comment: The Film Stood on its Own Without...[Spoilers]

WarpFactorZ wrote: View Post
Here's the catch 22. A movie about a rogue Admiral with an agenda turns into "Insurrection". Nothing to really catch the crowd. If you turn the baddie into a name brand, however, it sells.

Do I believe Khan would submit to the powers of Starfleet and do their nefarious bidding? Not really. According to Trek-lore, he ruled a quarter of Asia in the late 20th century. But here, he's reduced to a non-Indian James Bond in the 23rd century? Nah.

That being said, I suppose it's an interesting "what if" scenario, but I think they picked the wrong character. Oh well. Such is life. I'm still really looking forward to seeing it this weekend.
They were holding his people hostage, he mentions it in dialogue.
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Old May 16 2013, 08:11 PM   #10
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Re: Bob Orci's Comment: The Film Stood on its Own Without...[Spoilers]

Certainly if they bring Cumberbatch back everyone will know that they're doing another Khan flick.

The writers seem to have done their due diligence - no surprise - where the character's original presentation in "Space Seed" is concerned. There were suggestions then that Khan had attempted to be a responsible leader, by his lights, and that he cared about the followers who'd gone into deep space with him.

One can only imagine that finding himself alone and essentially imprisoned in this strange future that he would be at least as concerned with protecting and reviving his crew as he was in the original story...particularly because if he plans to try seizing power anywhere in the Federation his fellow supermen would be the best nucleus and leadership for his new armies.
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Old May 16 2013, 08:15 PM   #11
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Re: Bob Orci's Comment: The Film Stood on its Own Without...[Spoilers]

Admiral Buzzkill wrote: View Post
Certainly if they bring Cumberbatch back everyone will know that they're doing another Khan flick.
They left him alive, people are expecting it now.
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Old May 16 2013, 08:17 PM   #12
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Re: Bob Orci's Comment: The Film Stood on its Own Without...[Spoilers]

Awesome Possum wrote: View Post
They were holding his people hostage, he mentions it in dialogue.
Well, I haven't seen the movie yet. But still, would an aggressive tyrant who ruled half of Asia submit to "his people" being held "hostage"? I'd think he would have ripped some heads off at the beginning, and it'd be a done deal. After all, he took over an entire starship in 'Space Seed'.

Anyway, as I said, 'whateveh.' He's Khan. He's now a Brit. And he's a pawn (OOOhhhhhh! See the irony? "You are a PAAAAWWWWNNN, Kirk...").
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Old May 16 2013, 08:17 PM   #13
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Re: Bob Orci's Comment: The Film Stood on its Own Without...[Spoilers]

I'd be happy to see him return.

WarpFactorZ wrote: View Post
Awesome Possum wrote: View Post
They were holding his people hostage, he mentions it in dialogue.
Well, I haven't seen the movie yet. But still, would an aggressive tyrant who ruled half of Asia submit to "his people" being held "hostage"? I'd think he would have ripped some heads off at the beginning, and it'd be a done deal. After all, he took over an entire starship in 'Space Seed'.

Anyway, as I said, 'whateveh.' He's Khan. He's now a Brit. And he's a pawn (OOOhhhhhh! See the irony? "You are a PAAAAWWWWNNN, Kirk...").
The movie will explain it really well, and believe me, Cumberbatch delivers.
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Old May 16 2013, 08:18 PM   #14
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Re: Bob Orci's Comment: The Film Stood on its Own Without...[Spoilers]

Awesome Possum wrote: View Post
Admiral Buzzkill wrote: View Post
Certainly if they bring Cumberbatch back everyone will know that they're doing another Khan flick.
They left him alive, people are expecting it now.

And even if it's still early, Lindelof did say:

And what about new nemesis "John Harrison"? Could we see more of him? Lindelof managed to both avoid Into Darkness spoilers and leave the Trek 3 door open.
"To answer that question would be to determine whether or not he actually survives this movie, but if he survives this movie, I think that we would be incredibly stupid to not use him again."
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Old May 16 2013, 08:22 PM   #15
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Re: Bob Orci's Comment: The Film Stood on its Own Without...[Spoilers]

WarpFactorZ wrote: View Post
Awesome Possum wrote: View Post
They were holding his people hostage, he mentions it in dialogue.
Well, I haven't seen the movie yet. But still, would an aggressive tyrant who ruled half of Asia submit to "his people" being held "hostage"? I'd think he would have ripped some heads off at the beginning, and it'd be a done deal. After all, he took over an entire starship in 'Space Seed'.

Anyway, as I said, 'whateveh.' He's Khan. He's now a Brit. And he's a pawn (OOOhhhhhh! See the irony? "You are a PAAAAWWWWNNN, Kirk...").
Maybe you should see the movie before objecting to how he is shown. His motivation is made very clear and understandable. He's ruthless, but he does care about his people and doesn't want them hurt. His plan involves getting revenge and saving his people.
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