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Old May 18 2013, 01:12 AM   #31
Guy Gardener
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Re: Chakotay and Janeway romance

Dalby was a manly man.

Soooooooooooooo much musk.
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Old May 18 2013, 01:40 AM   #32
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Re: Chakotay and Janeway romance

Carey.. he's itching for Seven and he's such a family man.. when he's not hitting on the new blonde co-worker anyways. Sometimes you have to lose it to love it?
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Old May 18 2013, 01:52 AM   #33
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Re: Chakotay and Janeway romance

Hmmm.

Did Carey get Engineering back in the Before and After Universe after B'Elanna died?

What about Captain Ducane?

He's such a manly man that he legally and honourably sent Seven to her death a dozen times over successfully.
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Old May 18 2013, 02:55 AM   #34
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Re: Chakotay and Janeway romance

Okay I am now going to take time out from my very important posting frenzy in the Star Trek XI+ forum to explain to you all why Chakotay/7 works. For personal background in case anyone hasn't noticed I have always been J/7 and I have never been a Chakotay fan (other than saying he's good to look at). So I should be puking over C/7.

Chakotay is perfect for 7. Not perfect for the long term but perfect for where she is right now. He's kind, he's thoughtful, he's attracted to strong women and he will never hurt her. She is deeply wounded and unsure of herself as far as relationships and Chakotay has the patience, empathy and natural desire to dote on her that she needs. She has spent the majority of her life as one unit among billions with personal value having no reality. Chakotay will make her feel special, he will value her and relate personally to her as an individual and he's emotionally smart enough to understand that treating her that way is not a common thing but a part of her healing and growth.

Unlike other male suitors Chakotay is not one for ego. 7 will be free from him reacting personally to her coldness and misunderstandings. He is safe and he is easy to be in a relationship with compared to just about anyone else. He is not going to make demands on 7, rather he will be holding out his hand and waiting for her to take it.

Yes 7 had Auxum in Unimatrix Zero but that may seem more like a dream, a dream time within her enslavement. That was practice for having feelings as an individual, not practice for having a relationship in a real world.

What does Chakotay get out of it? As we know strong women are his thing, but this time he gets to be the strong man as well because 7 needs him. She's kick ass but she's vulnerable. He can give more to her than Seska ever needed or wanted. She may not show her appreciation but as she grows more comfortable in being in a relationship I think Chakotay will see her blooming and feel that he is appreciated. It will be an important relationship for both of them and while it will not last (and doesn't in the books) they will part with no animosity and with a gratitude for the time they spent together.
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Old May 18 2013, 02:56 AM   #35
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Re: Chakotay and Janeway romance

teacake wrote: View Post
Okay I am now going to take time out from my very important posting frenzy in the Star Trek XI+ forum to explain to you all why Chakotay/7 works. For personal background in case anyone hasn't noticed I have always been J/7 and I have never been a Chakotay fan (other than saying he's good to look at). So I should be puking over C/7.

Chakotay is perfect for 7. Not perfect for the long term but perfect for where she is right now. He's kind, he's thoughtful, he's attracted to strong women and he will never hurt her. She is deeply wounded and unsure of herself as far as relationships and Chakotay has the patience, empathy and natural desire to dote on her that she needs. She has spent the majority of her life as one unit among billions with personal value having no reality. Chakotay will make her feel special, he will value her and relate personally to her as an individual and he's emotionally smart enough to understand that treating her that way is not a common thing but a part of her healing and growth.

Unlike other male suitors Chakotay is not one for ego. 7 will be free from him reacting personally to her coldness and misunderstandings. He is safe and he is easy to be in a relationship with compared to just about anyone else. He is not going to make demands on 7, rather he will be holding out his hand and waiting for her to take it.

Yes 7 had Auxum in Unimatrix Zero but that may seem more like a dream, a dream time within her enslavement. That was practice for having feelings as an individual, not practice for having a relationship in a real world.

What does Chakotay get out of it? As we know strong women are his thing, but this time he gets to be the strong man as well because 7 needs him. She's kick ass but she's vulnerable. He can give more to her than Seska ever needed or wanted. She may not show her appreciation but as she grows more comfortable in being in a relationship I think Chakotay will see her blooming and feel that he is appreciated. It will be an important relationship for both of them and while it will not last (and doesn't in the books) they will part with no animosity and with a gratitude for the time they spent together.
Gotta love the starter husband thesis.
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Old May 18 2013, 03:03 AM   #36
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Re: Chakotay and Janeway romance

That's the term I usually use

But when I do someone always brings up Auxum because they get stuck on who came first.
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Old May 18 2013, 03:14 AM   #37
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Re: Chakotay and Janeway romance

teacake wrote: View Post
That's the term I usually use

But when I do someone always brings up Auxum because they get stuck on who came first.
You've made the point just a few times before! While I don't completely agree with it, you definitely articulate the argument well and make some good points. My main beef with the Seven/Chakotay relationship is they just threw it at us with no buildup whatsoever and expected us to find it believable. The Paris/Torres relationship works because hey... it was a bumpy road with a lot of foreshadowing and build up to it.

As for Auxum? Who cares? Seven certainly didn't and I don't blame her. Adolescent minds, puberty and the fact her only choices were creepy guy trying to grope her in a jungle or the snarling Klingon... well who can blame her?
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Old May 18 2013, 03:22 AM   #38
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Re: Chakotay and Janeway romance

Yeah I'm not arguing that they didn't throw it in there, they sure did. I just get around it by saying, well we don't see everything that goes on on the ship! Also let's look at it this way, Chakotay is on his own relationship arc, not discussed but there. He had his Seska horror and he recovered from that only to fall for someone he's clearly pined after for the last 4 years who has made it clear that it isn't ever going to happen. Enough time has passed and he's ready to not be the rejected one any more. We don't see that as a storyline but everyone is on their own relationship arc whether events happen or not (in life as well as tv).
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Old May 18 2013, 04:11 AM   #39
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Re: Chakotay and Janeway romance

She'll mock his religion.

Until she investigates it's tenants.

Then Seven will take a few steps back in terror.

Chakotay thinks it's novel and spiritual to create temporary collectives.

He's on the Verge of generating a new Borg-like threat.

It's like as if she was a recovering heroine addict, and married some guy only to discover that he's a got a monkey on his back too, except that he's not in recovery at all.

Sevens only recourse would be to shoot Chakotay in the head, destroy the technology, and then apologise to Janeway.

Then there's the other thing.

The group sex thing.

When Chakotay was a Borg initiate in Unity, he had group sex and it felt damn good.

He's going to keep pressuring Seven until she snaps him in two or she submits to becomes a central proccessor for an orgy.

Which does ask if Chakotay was really after Seven for Seven the person and not for just how her tech can make 7 people think that they have several genitals of each gender all having sex with themsellf from completely different directions and perspectives.

As if a regualar sex holds a candle?
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Old May 18 2013, 04:18 AM   #40
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Re: Chakotay and Janeway romance

Like any drug experience I'm pretty sure how he felt when he was in the mini collective having sex is pretty hazy for Chakotay. And if it isn't all he needs to do is focus on one of the pig ugly male Klingons in that collective to reprogram the memories as icky things he wants to forget.
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Old May 18 2013, 04:23 AM   #41
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Re: Chakotay and Janeway romance

Unless things got more complex after the camera retired, the other Borg just watched him lay into Riely, which means that he was watching himself through their eyes go for it... But they probably touched themselves a little over the pants? And he definitely felt how excited they were at watching him be so good at sex.
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Old May 18 2013, 04:28 AM   #42
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Re: Chakotay and Janeway romance

So you are saying he will be recording his 7 sessions and making them into holoprograms and letting certain select crewmates know where to find them?
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Old May 18 2013, 04:43 AM   #43
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Re: Chakotay and Janeway romance

To be fair, Seven seemed to respect Chakotay's religion in the Omega Directive when by her own admission she was seeking out her own spiritual experience. Seven may be a bitch at times, but she isn't cruel for it's own sake.
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Old May 18 2013, 04:47 AM   #44
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Re: Chakotay and Janeway romance

Considering her religion is about devastating billions of people in search of perfection she really can't bitch about anyone else's beliefs.
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Old May 18 2013, 04:49 AM   #45
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Re: Chakotay and Janeway romance

There is that too.
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