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Old May 17 2013, 02:28 AM   #16
R. Star
Rear Admiral
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Location: Shangri-La
Re: What's up with some DS9 fanboys' attitude?

Well ST vs SW has produced some amusing video edits but that's about as far as my interest in it stretches. Star Trek for the most part got better when Roddenberry wasn't in the loop anymore, maybe the same will be true for Star Wars and Lucas.
"I was never a Star Trek fan." J.J. Abrams
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Old May 21 2013, 12:44 AM   #17
Dale Sams
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Re: What's up with some DS9 fanboys' attitude?

My only input would be on "Spock rejected human values more than Odo"

Kirk :"His was the most...human"

Yes Spock would come back with something like "No need to be insulting." But Kirk is essentially correct.
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Old May 21 2013, 01:21 PM   #18
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Re: What's up with some DS9 fanboys' attitude?

Dale Sams wrote: View Post
My only input would be on "Spock rejected human values more than Odo"

Kirk :"His was the most...human"

Yes Spock would come back with something like "No need to be insulting." But Kirk is essentially correct.
Something being human has nothing to do with human values.

In this case, human values itemizes norms of human behavior and needs, specific parameters that typically tends to be associated with our people. Values, social conventions and rituals, our universally normative laws, emotional needs that's generally typical for our race as well as many closely related humanoids.

Spock, like Odo & Data, was meant to serve as an outsider's perspective on the show. Spock and Odo, unlike Data, distanced themselves from the human values they could not understand or/and simply disfavored. As seen in the movies and TNG, Spock eventually accepted that he may be a lot more human than he thought, as Kirk always had proclaimed, but that doesn't mean that he stopped deriding human values and has virtually nothing to do with it at all.

SPOCK: He intrigues me, this Picard.

DATA: In what manner, sir?

SPOCK: Remarkably dispassionate and analytical, for a human. I understand why my father chose to mind-meld with him. There's an almost Vulcan quality to the man.

DATA: Interesting, I had not considered that. And Capt. Picard has been a role model in my quest to be more human.

SPOCK: More human?

DATA: Yes, Ambassador.

SPOCK: Fascinating! You have an efficient intellect, superior physical skills, no emotional impediments. There are Vulcans who aspire all their lives to achieve what you've been given by design.

DATA: You are half-human?


DATA: Yet you have chosen the Vulcan way of life?

SPOCK: I have.

DATA: In effect, you have abandoned what I have sought all my life.

SPOCK: I believe I have isolated the 29th-cipher access code. I shall attempt to access the Proconsul's files.

DATA: Ambassador Spock, may I ask a personal question?

SPOCK: Please.

DATA: As you examine your life... Do you find you have missed your humanity?

SPOCK: I have no regrets.

DATA: "No regrets"... That is a human expression!

SPOCK: Yes. Fascinating!
Even when he acknowledges himself as a humanoid and half-human, he's still an outsider who don't really fancy the human way of life, their strivings and their approaches to matters and eventually overtly irrational emotions.
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Old May 21 2013, 10:16 PM   #19
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Location: Sac, Ca
Re: What's up with some DS9 fanboys' attitude?

I agree DS9 had its flaws and probably gets a bit over-praised at times (and it certainly had it's fair number of dud episodes).... but I still think it's safe to say that it had the strongest and most sophisticated storytelling of any of the series. Not to mention the best dialogue.

And it's still head and shoulders above VOY and ENT.

You might like the TOS or TNG characters or setting more (and I could easily see how that could be, as a huge fan of them myself), but when it comes to the stories I don't think there can be any doubt which show was the strongest and best.
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Old May 23 2013, 02:26 PM   #20
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Location: Location? What is this?
Re: What's up with some DS9 fanboys' attitude?

I don't think the DS9 fanboys hold a candle to the TOS fanpas (TOS = The Original Snobs). Only kidding. But seriously, give me a break! There are elitists, haters and trolls in every camp. It's definitely not unique to DS9.
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Old May 23 2013, 03:21 PM   #21
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Location: Gamma Quadrant
Re: What's up with some DS9 fanboys' attitude?

DS9 fans are the way they are (seemingly arrogant, prideful, etc.) because of the way DS9 and it's fans have been treated by the general Trek culture. DS9 was, from the first, insulted, demeaned, ridiculed, and denigrated by Trek TOS and TNG fans. That's just the facts. Any 'Tude you feel from DS9 fans is in response to the insults hurled at us and at OUR SHOW since it began in the 90's.

DS9 was always seen as the bastard Trek, as the "one that got it wrong." That is a load of CRAP. DS9 was the only Trek show with balls enough to do what it did over and over and over and never getting soft, never getting simple-minded. While all other Treks worked at creating great stories, DS9 was creating ART.

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Old May 29 2013, 12:22 PM   #22
Dal Rassak
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Location: Terok Nor
Re: What's up with some DS9 fanboys' attitude?

Personally, I think the first three shows were all great. The first Trek for introducing the original concept and some great characters, Next Gen for taking up the baton and running with it in its own way - staying faithful to the idea without becoming a mere spin-off, DS9 for daring to take a whole different angle on the whole thing.

I would say I enjoyed DS9 the most because I'd say taken all-in-all it had the most consistenly high quality of writing.

Voyager is an inferior-quality re-hash of TNG, and ENT likewise. No new ideas. Both the last series are in large parts unwatchable dross. Of course no film studio can resist milking a cash cow until it keels over...
"Trust is good; control is better"
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