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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old May 13 2013, 07:36 PM   #31
beamMe
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Re: Transporters in the nuVerse [SPOILERS]

mos6507 wrote: View Post
This is supposed to be a prequel in the (if it were prime)
Thankfully, it isn't.
The writers are free to create this Star Trek as they like.
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Old May 13 2013, 07:48 PM   #32
Cinema Geekly
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Re: Transporters in the nuVerse [SPOILERS]

mos6507 wrote: View Post
anh165 wrote: View Post
TOS era characters performing feats that Janeway/Picard/Sisko could not do.
What exactly were those feats again, besides the slingshot time-travel?

In the TNG era they have all sorts of goodies that TOS didn't have: phaser-strips, photon-torpedoes that split apart into multiple warheads, holodecks that can become sentient, etc...

anh165 wrote: View Post
Some people won't rest until the reboot trek returns back to using paper mache rocks again.
Please, you're resorting to hyperbole.

This is supposed to be a prequel in the (if it were prime) late Pike-era. Doesn't it make sense that the tech should be a little less advanced, a little less perfected? It doesn't mean it has to look 60s, but it should feel somehow less advanced than even TOS, let alone TNG.

This actually makes space exploration feel more adventurous and daring. That's what the whole promise of, let's say, Enterprise, which was never fully realized because they made it feel too TNG-like.
In all likely hood? Because society has advanced by a leap or two since since TNG to say nothing of TOS.

I've heard some people complain now that the ships controls still look too retro compared to our current level of technological advance.

But in story line it would make sense to follow the old axiom of "necessity is the mother of invention". No doubt the appearance of Nero's much more advanced ship and the mystery of its origin would force the powers in that region to ramp up R&D to build things they hadn't conceived of before the events with the Narada.
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Old May 13 2013, 07:50 PM   #33
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Re: Transporters in the nuVerse [SPOILERS]

SalvorHardin wrote: View Post
Mach5 wrote: View Post
Why the fuck does Starfeet even bother building starships then?

Because transporters don't help you keep the balance or fight off the Klingons, Romulans or whoever else, when they come for you with their fleet.
And because you need starships and their facilities to explore unknown regions of space. You can't keep beaming people blindly hoping to hit a planet.
Then why didn't Admiral Robocop just beam a bunch of nukes to all the Klingon planets? How could they prove who did it?
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Old May 13 2013, 07:53 PM   #34
beamMe
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Re: Transporters in the nuVerse [SPOILERS]

ConRefit79 wrote: View Post
SalvorHardin wrote: View Post
Mach5 wrote: View Post
Why the fuck does Starfeet even bother building starships then?

Because transporters don't help you keep the balance or fight off the Klingons, Romulans or whoever else, when they come for you with their fleet.
And because you need starships and their facilities to explore unknown regions of space. You can't keep beaming people blindly hoping to hit a planet.
Then why didn't Admiral Robocop just beam a bunch of nukes to all the Klingon planets? How could they prove who did it?
He wanted to cause a war. Why do you think he had the Enterprise sabotaged?
Hiding who attacked Kronos was never part of his plans.
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Old May 13 2013, 07:55 PM   #35
SalvorHardin
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Re: Transporters in the nuVerse [SPOILERS]

ConRefit79 wrote: View Post
SalvorHardin wrote: View Post
Mach5 wrote: View Post
Why the fuck does Starfeet even bother building starships then?

Because transporters don't help you keep the balance or fight off the Klingons, Romulans or whoever else, when they come for you with their fleet.
And because you need starships and their facilities to explore unknown regions of space. You can't keep beaming people blindly hoping to hit a planet.
Then why didn't Admiral Robocop just beam a bunch of nukes to all the Klingon planets? How could they prove who did it?
I haven't seen the movie yet. I've no idea about Admiral Robocop, his plans, his conscience or his war ethics.

And I'm not sure what that has to do with the Federation's need for starships. Even if you commit genocide and kill all the Klingons, that still doesn't mean you no longer need starships.
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Old May 13 2013, 07:59 PM   #36
M'Sharak
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Re: Transporters in the nuVerse [SPOILERS]

anh165 wrote: View Post
Yep, I think its really all about envy.

TOS era characters performing feats that Janeway/Picard/Sisko could not do.

Some people won't rest until the reboot trek returns back to using paper mache rocks again.
You know, I'm pretty sure I've asked you before not to do that. I'd really like to see you make an effort to stick to the movie (and aspects thereof) as a discussion topic—no shortage of things to talk about there, right?—and to avoid making insinuations about "envy" or statements concerning what "some people" will or won't do.

mos6507 wrote: View Post

Please, you're resorting to hyperbole.
And often the best response to hyperbole is no response at all.
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Old May 13 2013, 08:54 PM   #37
Pauln6
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Re: Transporters in the nuVerse [SPOILERS]

beamMe wrote: View Post
ConRefit79 wrote: View Post
SalvorHardin wrote: View Post


Because transporters don't help you keep the balance or fight off the Klingons, Romulans or whoever else, when they come for you with their fleet.
And because you need starships and their facilities to explore unknown regions of space. You can't keep beaming people blindly hoping to hit a planet.
Then why didn't Admiral Robocop just beam a bunch of nukes to all the Klingon planets? How could they prove who did it?
He wanted to cause a war. Why do you think he had the Enterprise sabotaged?
Hiding who attacked Kronos was never part of his plans.
He wanted to win the war. Harrison beamed 72 missiles with a single transport on a starship. 72 missiles over Qo'nos would devastate the planet - or better yet, just blow up Praxis - that's just a small moon. A Taste of Armageddon featured tech to beam missiles within the same system from one planet to another. We can assume that this WAS S31's plan and this was why they were targeted.

It is a crazy can of worms to open.

I'm way more in favour of having clearer defined limits to the tech on all sides, with some having a minor advantage in some respects like Klingons having more manoeuvrable ships with more powerful weaponry but weaker shields and less powerful warp drives etc.
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Old May 13 2013, 09:17 PM   #38
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Re: Transporters in the nuVerse [SPOILERS]

SalvorHardin wrote: View Post
Mach5 wrote: View Post
Why the fuck does Starfeet even bother building starships then?
Because transporters don't help you keep the balance or fight off the Klingons, Romulans or whoever else, when they come for you with their fleet.
And because you need starships and their facilities to explore unknown regions of space. You can't keep beaming people blindly hoping to hit a planet.
Didn't your momma teach you not to respond to rhetorical questions?
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Old May 13 2013, 09:20 PM   #39
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Re: Transporters in the nuVerse [SPOILERS]

My take on Transwarp beaming is that it has existed (sort of) since Gamesters of Triskelion, albeit it was alien technology.
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Old May 13 2013, 09:30 PM   #40
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Re: Transporters in the nuVerse [SPOILERS]

TheSubCommander wrote: View Post
My take on Transwarp beaming is that it has existed (sort of) since Gamesters of Triskelion, albeit it was alien technology.
See I found it awful and cheesy every time they pulled out the alien race with the magically powerful tech.

Give me the battle of wits between equally matched foes any day - Balance of Terror and TWoK are streets ahead of Gamesters in terms of excitement and anticipation.
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Old May 13 2013, 09:38 PM   #41
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Transporters in the nuVerse [SPOILERS]

Pauln6 wrote: View Post
72 missiles over Qo'nos would devastate the planet - or better yet, just blow up Praxis - that's just a small moon.
It would seem that's already happened in this timeline. Perhaps, hence the rather apocalyptic state of the planet.
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Old May 13 2013, 09:44 PM   #42
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Re: Transporters in the nuVerse [SPOILERS]

The "why not just beam a weapon (torpedoes, antimatter, it doesn't matter) over to the other ship/planet" question is as old as TOS no matter what the transport distance is.

The answer that always worked for me was there must be some kind of sensor that can be activiated (or is always on by default until deactivated), that can detect certain explosive materials and such in an incoming transport and block that transport.
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Old May 13 2013, 09:55 PM   #43
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Re: Transporters in the nuVerse [SPOILERS]

Hey, shields can block any transport, and whatever is in the beam then harmlessly ceases to exist.

That is, they can do that in the previous incarnations of Trek, which is why transporters are fundamentally useless in combat, and difficult to use even in surprise attacks. But Nero supposedly had shields up on his drilling rig when attacking Earth (Chekov specifically points out when they go down at the end of the big climax fight), yet this in no way hindered Kirk and Spock's beaming back and forth - only the interference from Nero's drill did.

That's the sort of discontinuity in treknology that I don't particularly like. But I can live with it: a rat race between transporters and shields would allow occasional penetration, especially when time travel cheats affect the outcome of the race.

What I have a much bigger problem with is the OP's suggestion that there is something in the film about not being able to beam up when beaming down happens without a hitch! The transporter has never been asymmetric like that. Of course, it could be, and by all rights should be, but it isn't. The transporter room guy needs a clear image of what is at the other end, and if he can't see it well enough to beam it up, he can't send anybody down "blind", either.

Or can he? The issue has never arisen in previous Trek, because no beam-down has been desperate enough. Desperation has only involved getting a hero out of a jam, and generally this can't be achieved by sending more people into said jam. But this scene might well involve something worth risking a "blind beam-down".

...Apparently, the hero beaming down isn't able to pack a beacon that would allow him and his target to subsequently be beamed up. But that sort of a limitation can probably easily be handwaved away.

Dunno. Gonna see the flick no matter what. Sounds a bit silly in places, but probably not too damningly so.

Timo Saloniemi
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Old May 13 2013, 10:13 PM   #44
TheSubCommander
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Re: Transporters in the nuVerse [SPOILERS]

Pauln6 wrote: View Post
TheSubCommander wrote: View Post
My take on Transwarp beaming is that it has existed (sort of) since Gamesters of Triskelion, albeit it was alien technology.
See I found it awful and cheesy every time they pulled out the alien race with the magically powerful tech.

Give me the battle of wits between equally matched foes any day - Balance of Terror and TWoK are streets ahead of Gamesters in terms of excitement and anticipation.
I can't disagree with you. It is a bit of a lazy out. Just saying that the new movies weren't the first in Trek to use such a thing.
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Old May 13 2013, 11:24 PM   #45
beamMe
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Re: Transporters in the nuVerse [SPOILERS]

Pauln6 wrote: View Post
He wanted to win the war.
No, Admiral Marcus wanted to turn the cold war with the Klingons into a hot one.

Pauln6 wrote: View Post
Harrison beamed 72 missiles with a single transport on a starship.
Have we seen the same movie?
Harrison/Khan had nothing to do with the transfer of the missiles.
Marcus had them transferred to the Enterprise, thus getting rid of - if the Kirk had functioned as intended - Khan, his crew and the Enterprise.

Pauln6 wrote: View Post
72 missiles over Qo'nos would devastate the planet
Good, now you are onto Marcus' plan.

Pauln6 wrote: View Post
- or better yet, just blow up Praxis - that's just a small moon.
Too late. Praxis has already crumbled to pieces.
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