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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Deep Space Nine

Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old May 13 2013, 08:48 PM   #16
MacLeod
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Re: Into Darkness DS9 references (SPOILERS)

^Explains Janeway being promoted out of the spacelanes, whilst Picard remained in them and Kirk was demoted back into them.
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Old May 13 2013, 11:54 PM   #17
PKTrekGirl
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Re: Into Darkness DS9 references (SPOILERS)

Hi everyone! Thanks Orac Zen for taking care of the spoiler in my absence. And it was a good reminder to everyone - please use the spoiler codes when discussing ANY plot point in the new movie - especially in threads that are not marked as spoiler threads. No one likes to be sideswiped with a spoiler for a film they have not yet seen.

I know that we are out of practice in the Trek forums since there has not been any new Trek in a few years. But it is critical that everyone use the spoiler codes and mark any threads that contain spoilers for the new film as such. Remember - when it doubt, err on the side of caution. Always a good policy!

Do NOT assume that everyone has seen the film, just because you have. Some of us don't like huge crowds...some of us live in places where the film has not come out yet, some of us have tricky work schedules and have not been able to go yet, some of us might be short on cash and can't afford to go this week or whatever.

Just think before you post, folk: If you hadn't seen the film yet, would you want to read this? If not, use spoiler codes.

Thanks!
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Old May 14 2013, 05:11 AM   #18
teacake
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Re: Into Darkness DS9 references (SPOILERS)

Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
I would have been so much happier with the film if John Harrison had just been a kick-ass S31 operative with access to loads of classified technology, rather than what they turned him into (I actually groaned in displeasure in the cinema when the reveal was made).
Oh me too, this would have been so much more interesting. A Section 31 movie, I would have loved that.
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Old May 17 2013, 09:03 PM   #19
MrLethalWeapon
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Re: Into Darkness DS9 references (SPOILERS)

MacLeod wrote: View Post
^Explains Janeway being promoted out of the spacelanes, whilst Picard remained in them and Kirk was demoted back into them.
Picard was offered the admiralty in season one, and turned it down; he likes starship command.

Janeway, after everything she'd been through, I'm sure was quite fond of the idea of a desk job.
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Old May 18 2013, 12:00 AM   #20
R. Star
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Re: Into Darkness DS9 references (SPOILERS)

Tosk wrote: View Post
Here's a DS9 reference that probably doesn't really exist...I'm reeeeeally stretching on this:

I thought the exact thing! I'm sure that wasn't a coincidence that was worked in there.
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Old May 18 2013, 01:01 PM   #21
DS9forever
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Re: Into Darkness DS9 references (SPOILERS)

I'd love to hear Ira Steven Behr and Ronald D. Moore give their opinions on Section 31 being in the movie - its the biggest DS9 reference since the Defiant was in First Contact.
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Old May 18 2013, 01:21 PM   #22
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Re: Into Darkness DS9 references (SPOILERS)

^Section 31 featured quite prominently in Enterprise too.
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Old May 18 2013, 05:50 PM   #23
DS9forever
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Re: Into Darkness DS9 references (SPOILERS)

Sorry, I should have specified that I meant in the films; I suppose the Dominion was mentioned in Insurrection and the Dominion War in Nemesis, but they were more allusions than anything.
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Old May 18 2013, 06:10 PM   #24
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Re: Into Darkness DS9 references (SPOILERS)

Gotcha.
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Old May 18 2013, 07:14 PM   #25
toughlittleship
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Re: Into Darkness DS9 references (SPOILERS)

Section 31 in the film isn't quite the same as it was in DS9 - it seemed to be more of a militia than a black ops organization.
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Old May 18 2013, 11:05 PM   #26
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Re: Into Darkness DS9 references (SPOILERS)

Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
I would have been so much happier with the film if John Harrison had just been a kick-ass S31 operative with access to loads of classified technology, rather than what they turned him into (I actually groaned in displeasure in the cinema when the reveal was made).
Totally agree. As soon as Section 31 was mentioned (by that racist terrorist guy from ENT, weirdly enough!) I was so jazzed. "Fantastic!" I thought, "Abrams has made a Section 31 movie! At last!" That positivity and optimism carried right on upto the moment when John Harrison did his big identity reveal (after having the Enterprise's hairdresser sort him out in the ship's brig) and all my hopes for a genuinely creative and thought-provoking movie crumbled faster than Abrams' Vulcan.

For the record, I would argue that the existence of Section 31 is part of what makes (proper) Trek great - the shades of grey. Odo summed it up better than I could - in a universe where the Tal Shiar and the Obsidian Order exist, it is illogical to assume that the UFP wouldn't have something equally shady and nefarious.
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Old May 18 2013, 11:06 PM   #27
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Re: Into Darkness DS9 references (SPOILERS)

Tosk wrote: View Post
Here's a DS9 reference that probably doesn't really exist...I'm reeeeeally stretching on this:

I just thought "Oh you're borrowing from The Undiscovered Country too now, are you? Fascinating".
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Old May 19 2013, 02:39 AM   #28
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Re: Into Darkness DS9 references (SPOILERS)

lvsxy808 wrote: View Post
I was surprised not so much at the mention of Section 31, but at the admiral talking about it quite as openly as he did. Perhaps he didn't think it was a problem because he didn't intend Kirk and Spock to come back from their mission, but still, if Section 31 is supposed to be the ultra-secretest of secret organizations, you don't just blurt out that they exist where anyone can overhear you. It makes me think the writers tossed it in so we'd be happy with a DS9 reference without really understanding what it is that makes Section 31 what it is.

BTW, are we supposed to assume that the admiral was actually a member of Section 31 himself? He mostly came off as your average Insane Admiral TM, but actively trying to start a war because you believe it's inevitable but you've got genetically engineered supermen on your side so you'll win anyway does kind of sound like a S31 thing. And the secret base and secret starship with its non-official Starfleet uniforms also fits.

.

I was surprised by this to, that the Admiral was so forthcoming about the existence of Section 31. Though when you think about it, even DS9 and Enterprise sort of established that Section 31 hides in plan sight. That being said, on DS9 you got the impression that even the mention of Section 31 was a risky act.

Someone in one of the Into Darkness threads suggested that the destruction of Vulcan had scared or hardened Starfleet/Federation enough to bring Section 31 more into the light and I can accept that. I mean they could argue that the destruction of Vulcan proved that they were right and were necessary to deal with other threats. (Though personally I think the film undercuts this by making the adversaries the admiral is gravely concerned over very weak).

I had a feeling Section 31 would be in the movie after reading the Countdown to Darkness prequel. The story there gave me that kind of feeling and the aftermath made me real suspicious. As for the film itself, the admiral's plan did sort of fit in line with some of the crazy plans we've seen on DS9 and ENT. And I also got a vibe from the Section 31/DS9 novel "Abyss" with Harrison.
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Old May 19 2013, 02:49 AM   #29
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Re: Into Darkness DS9 references (SPOILERS)

Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
I would have been so much happier with the film if John Harrison had just been a kick-ass S31 operative with access to loads of classified technology, rather than what they turned him into (I actually groaned in displeasure in the cinema when the reveal was made).
I totally agree. Because when the big moment came I think the film started going off the rails for me. It was like the writers just couldn't contain the inner fanboys inside them and just had to go there. Perhaps not because they thought they could do it better but maybe just to put their own spin on it or to write a character they probably grew up wanting to play with.

But that was totally unnecessary really for the story they were telling. Harrison was compelling enough. His motivation didn't even have to change. And if Harrison had been left alone I don't think the film would've veered (maybe) into a weak imitation of superior works.
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Old May 19 2013, 03:03 AM   #30
dub
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Re: Into Darkness DS9 references (SPOILERS)

I've only seen it once, and I know it's not the right time period for it, and it may be wishful thinking but...



Looked like it to me, but I'm sure someone here would know for sure.
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