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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old May 10 2013, 03:01 PM   #31
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Spocks line *Major Major Spoilers*

mos6507 wrote: View Post
Yeah. WOK had the good sense not to send the Enterprise underwater.
Are you STILL not over Star Trek: Insurrection? That was 15 years ago
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Old May 10 2013, 03:02 PM   #32
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Re: Spocks line *Major Major Spoilers*

But... there wasn't salt in these waters...
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Old May 10 2013, 03:03 PM   #33
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Re: Spocks line *Major Major Spoilers*

SalvorHardin wrote: View Post
Yeah, it only had magic torpedoes making habitable planets out of thin air and bringing the dead back in child form in the process.
Much better.
That's not magic, man! That's protomatter!
You know? Science!
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Old May 10 2013, 03:10 PM   #34
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Re: Spocks line *Major Major Spoilers*

Ah, I eagerly await a new "Kha-a-a-a-a-n!" video clip to add to the collection.



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Old May 10 2013, 03:18 PM   #35
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Re: Spocks line *Major Major Spoilers*

beamMe wrote: View Post
Classic Fan wrote: View Post
JJ basically remade TWOK.
No, he did not.
Didnt mean that quite so litterally.

It was meant as a kind of obvious aobservation of the scenes that paralleled the events in TWOK.

Things happened to characters that happened to others later on in the prime universe, and earlier. There was no space seed however this khan had an issue with the captain, now admiral, who found the Botany Bay, kirk and crew were caught up in it and again, during the scene through the vengeance, they respect each other as people as they did in space seed.
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Old May 10 2013, 03:19 PM   #36
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Re: Spocks line *Major Major Spoilers*

The laughable cornball moment was when Kirk (Shatner) got to emote and yelled, "Khaaaaaaaaan," in TWOK. It was cringe-inducing when I saw it for the first time in the theater, and it still is, today.

In the context of STID, here's Spock, who we know is still wondering how to deal with the emotions that churn just below his surface. Here's Spock, who has lost six billion of his fellow Vulcans, his mom, and now Kirk. Sure, they'd been together only a year, but Spock Prime had told him that in his universe, they went on to have a long friendship and accomplished great and unique things. It was important that they were together. Now, that chance has been taken away from him, too.

Should Spock be pissed? Agonized? Enraged? This is the last straw. At least this time, "Khaaaaaaaaaan" has some meaning and is a justifiable primal scream.

If Trek fans laugh at it, I'd say it's because we always took it as an over-the-top laugh-line from TWOK. The risk the writers took this time was an attempt to finally give the line real gravitas. Too bad it seems to have failed for a lot of fans.
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Old May 10 2013, 03:21 PM   #37
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Re: Spocks line *Major Major Spoilers*

Admiral Buzzkill wrote: View Post
Ah, I eagerly await a new "Kha-a-a-a-a-n!" video clip to add to the collection.



I'm gonna get killed by my friends if I posted that on FB!
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Old May 10 2013, 03:41 PM   #38
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Re: Spocks line *Major Major Spoilers*

I've dropped about six friends off my FB news feed for a couple of weeks just because I'm tired of their whinging about this movie. When they're over it on to the next thing I'll bring them back.

I mean, in a couple of years they'll have Cameron's second Avatar film to diss and dismiss as it goes on to become the most successful movie in history.
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Old May 10 2013, 03:46 PM   #39
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Re: Spocks line *Major Major Spoilers*

I'm still crying with laughter!

So is JJ on his way to the bank!
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Old May 10 2013, 03:49 PM   #40
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Re: Spocks line *Major Major Spoilers*

Franklin, I think you hit it on the head. I recently rewatched TWoK and was surprised at how badly Shatner's "KHAN!" line plays. I suppose I idealized it over time. The movie has merits, surely, but the line in its original context doesn't make a great deal of sense as acted.

I think Spock's enraged version works much better and more sensibly. Here's a man who has been emotionally compromised, who has lost so much, and now had the promise of a friend taken from him. It's clear that it's the last straw for his emotional defenses.

I'd argue that we are likely to dislike the line because we cannot help see it in terms of what we know; a friend of mine who has seen the film but not TWoK was frankly confused as to why anyone would feel that line was out of place. "Of all the lines in the movie, it's got to be one of the most telling, right?" she asked. I'd tend to agree.
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Old May 10 2013, 04:05 PM   #41
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Re: Spocks line *Major Major Spoilers*

Erehwonnz24 wrote: View Post
Franklin, I think you hit it on the head. I recently rewatched TWoK and was surprised at how badly Shatner's "KHAN!" line plays. I suppose I idealized it over time. The movie has merits, surely, but the line in its original context doesn't make a great deal of sense as acted.

I think Spock's enraged version works much better and more sensibly. Here's a man who has been emotionally compromised, who has lost so much, and now had the promise of a friend taken from him. It's clear that it's the last straw for his emotional defenses.

I'd argue that we are likely to dislike the line because we cannot help see it in terms of what we know; a friend of mine who has seen the film but not TWoK was frankly confused as to why anyone would feel that line was out of place. "Of all the lines in the movie, it's got to be one of the most telling, right?" she asked. I'd tend to agree.
Shatner's KHHHAAAAAN! has always been mocked ever since day one.

Which is why it's even more surprising how it made its way into this new film in a scene that is supposed to be taken seriously.
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Old May 10 2013, 04:15 PM   #42
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Re: Spocks line *Major Major Spoilers*

Erehwonnz24 wrote: View Post
Franklin, I think you hit it on the head. I recently rewatched TWoK and was surprised at how badly Shatner's "KHAN!" line plays. I suppose I idealized it over time. The movie has merits, surely, but the line in its original context doesn't make a great deal of sense as acted.

I think Spock's enraged version works much better and more sensibly. Here's a man who has been emotionally compromised, who has lost so much, and now had the promise of a friend taken from him. It's clear that it's the last straw for his emotional defenses.

I'd argue that we are likely to dislike the line because we cannot help see it in terms of what we know; a friend of mine who has seen the film but not TWoK was frankly confused as to why anyone would feel that line was out of place. "Of all the lines in the movie, it's got to be one of the most telling, right?" she asked. I'd tend to agree.
They must've decided to take a chance that fans would get lost in the moment and not immediately make the connection. Must not have worked out well for many. I haven't seen the movie yet (I'm on a one-week countdown), so I guess I'll see how I react then.

The other thing is Spock's death scene in TWOK was OK, but not really a great, great, iconic scene. It's been romaticized over time, I'd say. But as movie death scenes go, eh. Maybe that's the light it's finally being seen in this time. Pine and Quinto can't quite sell it as well as Shatner and Nimoy did. Maybe it wasn't worth the homage. (OMG. Did I really just write that? I HAVE BLASPHEMED!)

(And as far as Kirk coming back to life goes, it's not like anyone didn't expect Spock to come back somehow in the next movie, either.)
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Old May 10 2013, 04:15 PM   #43
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Re: Spocks line *Major Major Spoilers*

Franklin wrote: View Post
The laughable cornball moment was when Kirk (Shatner) got to emote and yelled, "Khaaaaaaaaan," in TWOK. It was cringe-inducing when I saw it for the first time in the theater, and it still is, today.

In the context of STID, here's Spock, who we know is still wondering how to deal with the emotions that churn just below his surface. Here's Spock, who has lost six billion of his fellow Vulcans, his mom, and now Kirk. Sure, they'd been together only a year, but Spock Prime had told him that in his universe, they went on to have a long friendship and accomplished great and unique things. It was important that they were together. Now, that chance has been taken away from him, too.

Should Spock be pissed? Agonized? Enraged? This is the last straw. At least this time, "Khaaaaaaaaaan" has some meaning and is a justifiable primal scream.

If Trek fans laugh at it, I'd say it's because we always took it as an over-the-top laugh-line from TWOK. The risk the writers took this time was an attempt to finally give the line real gravitas. Too bad it seems to have failed for a lot of fans.
Dude, note perfect.

I had no problem with this version, but like you said, it has this stigma amongst fans with the terrible shatner version, which had been parodied to death, and because of that for a second or two, I was asking why, but soon after I accepted it and love that moment better than TWOK.

This version was so much more deserved. I prefer it in fact. When I watch trek movies now as a nearly 30 year old, I see them with nostalgic eyes as I grew up with them, but my older and wiser mind sees the flaws and, to be frank, takes me out of it as I can see the bad points I couldn't as a child, such as most of shatners acting and lines that just dont work.

Spock here as said, being half human, his emotions bubbling under the surface had hit breaking point, cried, got enraged and went and gave khan a Vulcan pummelling. =D
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Old May 10 2013, 08:14 PM   #44
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Re: Spocks line *Major Major Spoilers*

Franklin wrote: View Post

They must've decided to take a chance that fans would get lost in the moment and not immediately make the connection. Must not have worked out well for many. I haven't seen the movie yet (I'm on a one-week countdown), so I guess I'll see how I react then.
There is not a Star Trek fan alive who couldn't make this connection...Seriously.

It's such a shame because the scene is quite touching even though not even 0.0001% of my brain would allow me to consider the possibility that Kirk was going to die.

The resolution was so telegraphed in advance it was impossible to think of anything else.
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Old May 10 2013, 08:24 PM   #45
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Re: Spocks line *Major Major Spoilers*

mos6507 wrote: View Post
King Daniel wrote: View Post
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I really don't think it was in anyway a remake. Not even close.
Yep, they remade a scene (which was actually nicely done) and reused a famous line (which was godawful and killed said scene), but otherwise the film couldn't be more different to "Space Seed" or "Wrath of Khan". Different situations, different motivations, different story.
Yeah. WOK had the good sense not to send the Enterprise underwater.
There's a clear topic in this thread (which is the only reason for its continued existence outside the Grading & Discussion thread) and the only possible reason for your post would involve intent to derail from it. Warned.

SalvorHardin wrote: View Post
mos6507 wrote: View Post
King Daniel wrote: View Post
...
Yeah. WOK had the good sense not to send the Enterprise underwater.
Yeah, it only had magic torpedoes making habitable planets out of thin air and bringing the dead back in child form in the process.
Much better.
Didn't require a response.

King Daniel wrote: View Post
mos6507 wrote: View Post
Yeah. WOK had the good sense not to send the Enterprise underwater.
Are you STILL not over Star Trek: Insurrection? That was 15 years ago
Ditto. Don't feed what doesn't merit feeding.
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