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Old February 28 2015, 09:51 AM   #1
Madkoifish
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1701 Enterprise TOS build

Well I wanted to join in with a tribute render I knew I wouldn't have time to paint anything so I decided a TOS CONNIE would do, but found either most of the max models open with shifted open loops IE if the mesh has open edges and is old it will often move those arbitrarily. I found one on trekmeshes, while it was much cleaner I had issues with the materials being scanline and they took FOREVER to render in mental ray. So instead of arguing with it I thought LETS RETEXTURE IT. . . . well needless to say I got a good portion done then realized I started fixing geometry somewhere along the line. IE Changing up proportions on the bridge to match the 11 foot photos, (it matched most of the blueprints with a shallow sensor dome and taller bridge) altering lights in structure to do what I want for surfacing and efx. So with that I thought well instead of altering someone's model then chasing permission or even the ethics of fooling with someone's model so much i decided I will just build my OWN. This way I can have it in my own workflow process have it properly scaled (one I had was like 45ft long) And have it so it will render nicely with my other meshes and on the same gamma and exposure set up. I normally stay WAY FAR AWAY from clone modeling of canon ships due to the neckbeard levels of pixel counting and other insane silly methods but well heck I could use a canon TOS connie, So here is the start. . . . .





All I got so far lol. Pushed about a half sphere to get the B&C deck but I am not happy with it as I will have to add in some more edges to keep the density on the butt end of it. It might not have the cross section curvature I really want either. As it seems to be flatter near the saucer. I do have a saucer profile but I am not showing it as I am not happy with it. None of the blues or models match up in this area, and there is the matching the model itself get what looks ok one angle and looks naff elsewhere. I think it could be due to lights and most images using flash. And not knowing what lens etc was used. BUT as said with everything I will just wing it as best as I can. B&C deck of course will be left subdiv as I decide all this as I would like to weld it in place vs sitting on the saucer, reason it sort of has a profile to it atm as I would like to get the loops to follow things vs intersect at sharp angles. Mostly for my anality. I also have to make some better textures, ones with less scratching in.


MMM I think my bridge area is still too tall, exp compared to those trek core photos with the solid lighting vs dim store lights and low iso film. gotta gloss up those red glow nipples too. I am also using the AO shader to fake the grime wells for now later on likely I will texture this crap in. Whole reason I got started in this was the long renders due to all the existing models using scanline setups. POO heh.
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Old February 28 2015, 01:20 PM   #2
Madkoifish
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Re: 1701 Enterprise TOS build

Ok after finding out somewhere along the way my exposure control settings got turned off I had to readjust everything. Gotta figure out why the default scene keeps reverting settings to start up, wasnt a issue in past versions of max but those didn't make use of multiple clones of the same crap all over either IE appdata folders vomited all over the root drive.

ANYHOW. So I just went for it with the saucer. ATM the only thing I am ehh on is the curvature on the top lip and the undercut area. That area where the nav lights are on the bottom in some photos looks like it is sloped and has multiple angles vs just a flat face and then the under cut. I also am having issues as I seem to have the JEIN-ERPRISE (wonder where that model ended up) mixed in my 11 foot refs! The sensor dome bezel is a prime example as I think I used that DS9 model instead of the original. But that part i dunno, I might just keep it. SIGH, anyhow hope to at least have most of this thing blocked in roughly by the end of this weekend unless I fizzle and be a layabout, which has been all too common these days. EXP which all the jumping around with different drugs. OH to be 16 again, days I could do a 72 hour art binge and just need 8hrs to get back on schedule!

oh well on to the pics then BED for me!

semi profile

Markerlights, seem they are going to need a bit of work, might be a tad large and pretend they have a hole around them in the saucer. I might just play on the filament internals too or keep this milky look, not sure yet. I also would like to know if the DART shaped small coloured markers just to the side of these main ones was really dart shaped and tinted green or red or if that was that restoration add on. (referring to photos taken recently at the smith this last jan, as seen at trek core. I do not think any clear images existed of this area of the ship prior)

Lower sensor (Planetary sensor) All those stepped bits and bevels I think is the Jein connie detail. Are those rounded cyl on a even thirds? I cannot tell in the master photos short of counting hull panels and doing maths, READ: spending hours to know the things are only 2deg out from being true 120deg centers.
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Old February 28 2015, 02:26 PM   #3
Bernard Guignard
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Re: 1701 Enterprise TOS build

I'd suggest taking a look at Shaw's research on the connie 11ft Great start by the way
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Old March 1 2015, 01:49 AM   #4
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Re: 1701 Enterprise TOS build

AFAIK he has mostly worked on the 33" model which is a very different beast. I could be wrong. AMT I am concentrating on the model as it exists today as the current state has the most resources of useable quality.

Next migrane, well the REAL one as I have always seen the irregular shape of the secondary in head on. So far the 2 3d models are inconsistent down the hull so I am using the casimiro profile as it looks closest to the 11 footer as I see her. BUT I do notice some of the bezels are duplicated etc. IE extra steps. So for now this is my ehh block out of it. I have ignored the bulge in the top curve for now as i really have to wonder if this was done on purpose. Maybe it was and I am missing that info though. I do wonder what I will do with those annoying cut outs though on the sides and bottom for those wave guide whatsits flanking the deflector.







Not sure if those inner ring things are suppose to be the same copper finish on the deflector or not as the paint on the model is really gone funky in places. It looks like it was a metal paint at some point.
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Old March 1 2015, 02:59 PM   #5
Bernard Guignard
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Re: 1701 Enterprise TOS build

Actually he's been building and doing research into Scratch building a scaled down version of the 11 ft model here's the link to the Treknographics 101 forum topic on the subject.

http://treknographics101.prophpbb.com/topic304.html
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Old March 1 2015, 11:46 PM   #6
Madkoifish
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Re: 1701 Enterprise TOS build

MM not seeing any of the level of documentation like he has done for the 33" this is what I am referring to as I do not believe in referencing photos of a model of a model. I have followed his work at another forum and keep an eye on his progress on the various models. Found some stuff though.

The way i am working is I refer to recent imagery of the original model then cross ref it to older stuff if it is a element I feel is modern, then I fall back to illustrations and blueprints. If I run across an area not clearly defined in all of the above I will refer to other works or cgi models.

The Update from last night:

Loosely blocked in bits. Deflector I am torn between the alum look or to go with the brass look. Not really sure which is original or if I should just stick to the examples of stuff at the smith as that spire is completely different.







The rings behind the deflector will need adjustment to match up to the math as I found some info on it vs eyeballing it to photos.

Last edited by Madkoifish; March 2 2015 at 02:32 AM.
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Old March 2 2015, 08:30 AM   #7
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Re: 1701 Enterprise TOS build

Added in the impulse but now I look more I am seeing a odd curvature to the taper in some of the refs thought it was the cloth falling off but it seems more aparent in the resto WIP images. Almost looks like it is more heavily curved on one side vs the other as well. So with that I am thinking I am going to have to yank off all the surface cuts I added for details so that I can subdiv or least cut it in then chamfer it to shape.
That "thing" I stuck a block of junk under to least make some sense as to the gap. I know on the model it is just done to allow access to the bolts on the saucer. I just gotta wonder if it is floating like it is due to not being properly fitted or replacement of HDW caused clearances to tighten so much it sits proud of the hull. A lot of gaps down it's length are visible in photos.







Just some of the images that the curve thing shows up in.



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Old March 2 2015, 11:54 AM   #8
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Re: 1701 Enterprise TOS build

Not canon as the model just had painted areas here but Dunno. It is just a texture so I can remove it if I change my mind. For the laughs I stuck some hex screws in those holes as that is what is in those holes.



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Old March 2 2015, 02:34 PM   #9
Bernard Guignard
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Re: 1701 Enterprise TOS build

Very nice
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Old March 2 2015, 03:48 PM   #10
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Re: 1701 Enterprise TOS build

Madkoifish wrote: View Post
I normally stay WAY FAR AWAY from clone modeling of canon ships due to the neckbeard levels of pixel counting and other insane silly methods but well heck I could use a canon TOS connie, So here is the start. . . . .
I don't blame you one bit! But yours is looking great so far.
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Old March 2 2015, 10:45 PM   #11
MadMan1701A
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Re: 1701 Enterprise TOS build

I really like it... I like the level of grunge you have on it so far too.

-Ricky
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Old March 4 2015, 02:16 AM   #12
Madkoifish
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Re: 1701 Enterprise TOS build

Ok I made a first go at building these bits to find profiles and bits of ship were off. I just started modeling them with no thought and then realized I wasted the time doing so from being sloppy. SO I didn't bother posting it in some of the forums. SO take 2 is what you will see.


Rebuilt those things before I ate dinner and passed out on the couch until 4am UGH. Ended up redoing the entire front end as none of the blues would match photos of things with the ratio. So I just matched it up to 3 images and went from there. Still not 100% but closest I think I can get atm without rebuilding over and over. Biggest error atm is that first chamfer on the hull. I think mine is out by a few deg. Just gotta round it all off and blend the backside into the hull.







The spike is pissing me off too as I cannot find a clear illustration of it that isnt mushy or fat edged. Or does not result in something that is way off from all my grainy photos! heh. So who knows it might be all pudgy.
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Old March 4 2015, 04:35 AM   #13
Madkoifish
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Re: 1701 Enterprise TOS build

OK all rounded off and added in those "bits" I think I got the smoothing off the backside ok. NOT sure if the bit on the bottom is a exact copy though. Most of my refs of that area are only from the models 74 era and so they are bad telephotos or low rez (well fidelity) full ship photos.



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Old March 4 2015, 09:18 AM   #14
Madkoifish
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Re: 1701 Enterprise TOS build

Update, sort of pushed things about to get what I want. Partly it is being a pain is I am trying to match 2 inconsistent blues and various photos. And being super lazy about spending 2 hours on google to find out what shapes I need to look at. I think the bay doors are not properly a half dome or spherical in height. IE they flatten out near the bottom. EXP as I cannot seem to get the height or alignment to the opening and that little room on top. I know the room is offset by ohh 8ft, backside of it is near the centerline for the doors. (which is odd in of itself) ANYHOW this is as close as I can get it atm. Everything is in parts but they will be all merged in and rounded off in time. I think atm my fantail is a bit too smooshed.







BTW ANYONE KNOW what those 2 dots and the red cyl are in the middle of the red stripes? I think the red thing is a light, on the model it is loaded up with over spray. Also did we ever see a hero model for the outside of the doors? I vaguely remember something from the interior. Anyhow going to need to figure out as close to canon as I can for how they operate so I can do more than a dome with lines on.


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Old March 4 2015, 11:16 AM   #15
Madkoifish
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Re: 1701 Enterprise TOS build

All joined up and rounded off.








aaaaand I think that is it for tonight.
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