RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,704
Posts: 5,431,709
Members: 24,834
Currently online: 435
Newest member: kamkaran


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy

Science Fiction & Fantasy Farscape, Babylon 5, Star Wars, Firefly, vampires, genre books and film.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old January 20 2014, 06:14 AM   #1081
Immolatus
Captain
 
Immolatus's Avatar
 
Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
DarthTom wrote: View Post
But for a presumed Trek fan to criticize TWD because if inconsistencies within the show is laughable to me.
Why? ST is the far future, so it cannot be so strictly judged by the scientific assumptions / expectations of the present day audience; you would be better off just accepting that entire world as operating on a level completely out the range, so it cannot be held to the same standard as a series set in the here and now.

On the other hand, TWD is set in the here and now--and while we accept the fantasy framework of the series, you must remember that TWD prides itself on how "real" it is across the board, from its soap-opera, no low is too low relationships, to the gruesome attacks and/or deaths at the hands of the living and the dead.

For that, TWD--whether the showrunners want it or not--the series is expected to present scripts that reflect reality, not avoid it. In the history of zombie productions, few have been brave enough to tackle the why of the ZA; most were willing to fall back on the "if you are bitten, you turn," and not much else. Night of the Living Dead (1968) suggested radiation from a Venus probe may have triggered their ZA, while The Return of the Living Dead pointed to some sort of military chemical stored in barrels.

Plausible or not, the two productions at least provided the audience with the most natural response: why? We already know we're in for horror, escape scenes and drama, but audiences have a desire to know why or how the dead could rise to be cannibals.

Is it too much to ask the allegedly "realistic" WD to even explore that? Or are the creators/showrunners so cowardly to risk" being challenged by...oh, I don't know...being creative and give more than Jenner's one-off, unsubstantiated statements.

Instead, the series--considering its network--is content to be more soaper than horror drama. It is more about characters overacting anguish, anger, sadism or depression than moments where people truly take just a moment to talk about the problem and what they can do to fight it.

Place yourself in the position of the survivors in season two's finale: after Rick tells them Jenner's opinion, would YOU just accept it as truth?

Look, no one is saying characters do not have off-camera conversations, but the on-camera scenes--that which is presented to audiences--has characters just moving on, as though a life-changing catastrophe of this kind is just as easy to accept as an usually long rainy season.

That is where TWD's showrunners deserve criticism--you have a show trying to be SO realistic in its present day settings, but runs away from any real consideration of why the dead walk at all.
if you were with Ricks group what would you do? tell rick they should head towards Area 51 and see if they have a cure? Maybe to the White House and see if there is anybody there with answers.
__________________
Beware the beast man for he is the Devils pawn. Alone among Gods primates, he kills for sport or lust or greed. Let him not breed in great numbers for he will make a desert of his home & yours. Shun him, for he is the harbinger of death.
Immolatus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 20 2014, 03:39 PM   #1082
TREK_GOD_1
Fleet Captain
 
TREK_GOD_1's Avatar
 
Location: Escaped from Delta Vega
Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Immolatus wrote: View Post
if you were with Ricks group what would you do? tell rick they should head towards Area 51 and see if they have a cure? Maybe to the White House and see if there is anybody there with answers.
Funny, but you're missing the point. The writers thought they were dodging the explanation matter with the CDC episode, but in the end, it did not tell us anything of substance. Rick's group already had a basic understanding of how the disease works (in reanimation causes), but aside from Jenner telling Rick everyone carries the disease, again, there's not even a good shot in the dark about why its happening.

If you were in this world, yes--we know survival is the 1st priority, but your longevity will be compromised (ultimately) if you are looking over your shoulder because you have no clue how to stop the disease, so there will be a never ending supply of walkers.

What is the defense for that? As guarded as Woodbury was, walkers still found their way in, or were attracted to the location. The prison was not better, as it already had dozens in various corridors, and months later (after the post season 3 / pre-season 4 clean-up) you had armies always at the fence.

That is a situation that will only take a turn for the worst (think of what would have happened if Rick & Carl could not hold off the fence-busting walkers). With no answer to address the disease, you will run out of so-called strongholds, ammunition, and do not know if anyone around you will turn when you least expect it.

No one said the entire series had to be a conversation about "the cure," but TWD's total avoidance of something as simple as a conversation is cowardly writing.
__________________
"...to be like God, you have the power to make the world anything you want it to be."
TREK_GOD_1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 20 2014, 04:33 PM   #1083
Vendikarr
Rear Admiral
 
Vendikarr's Avatar
 
Location: Vendikarr
Send a message via AIM to Vendikarr
Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
Immolatus wrote: View Post
if you were with Ricks group what would you do? tell rick they should head towards Area 51 and see if they have a cure? Maybe to the White House and see if there is anybody there with answers.
Funny, but you're missing the point. The writers thought they were dodging the explanation matter with the CDC episode, but in the end, it did not tell us anything of substance. Rick's group already had a basic understanding of how the disease works (in reanimation causes), but aside from Jenner telling Rick everyone carries the disease, again, there's not even a good shot in the dark about why its happening.

If you were in this world, yes--we know survival is the 1st priority, but your longevity will be compromised (ultimately) if you are looking over your shoulder because you have no clue how to stop the disease, so there will be a never ending supply of walkers.

What is the defense for that? As guarded as Woodbury was, walkers still found their way in, or were attracted to the location. The prison was not better, as it already had dozens in various corridors, and months later (after the post season 3 / pre-season 4 clean-up) you had armies always at the fence.

That is a situation that will only take a turn for the worst (think of what would have happened if Rick & Carl could not hold off the fence-busting walkers). With no answer to address the disease, you will run out of so-called strongholds, ammunition, and do not know if anyone around you will turn when you least expect it.

No one said the entire series had to be a conversation about "the cure," but TWD's total avoidance of something as simple as a conversation is cowardly writing.
A cure is not what the series is about. And to illustrate that, the cast of characters has no capability of finding a cure. We have no research doctors, biologists or any other scientists. We have a deputy sheriff, a survivalist, a pizza delivery guy and a farmer/veterinarian. They couldn't find a cure if they wanted to.

The scope of the series would need to change drastically in order to focus on a cure.
__________________
"They have to help the viewers let go. Firefly did a movie to wrap things up. Buffy the Vampire Slayer continued on as a comic book. Heroes gradually lowered the quality season by season until we were grateful it ended.” - Sheldon Cooper
Vendikarr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 20 2014, 06:24 PM   #1084
Kestrel
Vice Admiral
 
Kestrel's Avatar
 
Location: East Tennessee
Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
No one said the entire series had to be a conversation about "the cure," but TWD's total avoidance of something as simple as a conversation is cowardly writing.
Nope.
__________________
"If Romeo had just masturbated a couple of times a week he would have saved both those nice families a heap of trouble."
Kestrel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 20 2014, 07:25 PM   #1085
Ryan8bit
Commodore
 
Ryan8bit's Avatar
 
Location: St. Paul, MN
Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
you have a show trying to be SO realistic in its present day settings
Putting zombies aside, I think the show isn't really that realistic in a variety of ways.

I get the desire to have characters at least question why it's happening or how it started. But maybe our characters haven't had a safe enough situation to have time to question it? At any rate, the characters on this show often seem to just go through the motions rather than critically thinking.
Ryan8bit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 20 2014, 07:47 PM   #1086
Relayer1
Commodore
 
Relayer1's Avatar
 
Location: The Black Country, England
Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Well, considering my big dislikes of the show are David Morrissey, the character of The Governor, the whole Woodbury storyline and the main cast all being stuck at the prison, I'm pretty happy with where they left it for the mid season break !

__________________
Soon oh soon the light, Pass within and soothe this endless night, And wait here for you, Our reason to be here...
Relayer1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 21 2014, 12:02 AM   #1087
sojourner
Admiral
 
sojourner's Avatar
 
Location: I'm at WKRP
Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Relayer1 wrote: View Post
Well, considering my big dislikes of the show are David Morrissey, the character of The Governor, the whole Woodbury storyline and the main cast all being stuck at the prison, I'm pretty happy with where they left it for the mid season break !

Told ya!
__________________
Baby, you and me were never meant to be, just maybe think of me once in a while...
sojourner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 21 2014, 01:27 AM   #1088
JD
Admiral
 
JD's Avatar
 
Location: Arizona, USA
Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

If the cure for the zombie disease is not important to the plot or character development then it makes sense to me that the writers wouldn't want to the waste time on it.
__________________
They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it is not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance. - Terry Pratchett, Equal Rites
JD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 21 2014, 02:03 AM   #1089
TREK_GOD_1
Fleet Captain
 
TREK_GOD_1's Avatar
 
Location: Escaped from Delta Vega
Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Vendikarr wrote: View Post
A cure is not what the series is about.
Already covered by my own:

No one said the entire series had to be a conversation about "the cure,"
..but I maintain:

...but TWD's total avoidance of something as simple as a conversation is cowardly writing
__________________
"...to be like God, you have the power to make the world anything you want it to be."
TREK_GOD_1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 21 2014, 02:14 AM   #1090
Sindatur
Vice Admiral
 
Sindatur's Avatar
 
Location: Sacramento, CA
Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
Vendikarr wrote: View Post
A cure is not what the series is about.
Already covered by my own:

No one said the entire series had to be a conversation about "the cure,"
..but I maintain:

...but TWD's total avoidance of something as simple as a conversation is cowardly writing
They had the Governor's Science Guy (Milton?) doing experiments for an entire half season to learn more about it. Add this to the CDC Episode and the couple conversations here and there that have been had, and it seems to me, that's at least 10-25% of the episodes that have dealt with the science/mystery of it on some level
__________________
One Day I hope to be the Man my Cat thinks I am

Where are we going? And why are we in this Handbasket?
Sindatur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 21 2014, 06:32 PM   #1091
Relayer1
Commodore
 
Relayer1's Avatar
 
Location: The Black Country, England
Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

sojourner wrote: View Post
Relayer1 wrote: View Post
Well, considering my big dislikes of the show are David Morrissey, the character of The Governor, the whole Woodbury storyline and the main cast all being stuck at the prison, I'm pretty happy with where they left it for the mid season break !

Told ya!
Indeed you did !
__________________
Soon oh soon the light, Pass within and soothe this endless night, And wait here for you, Our reason to be here...
Relayer1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 22 2014, 12:49 AM   #1092
TREK_GOD_1
Fleet Captain
 
TREK_GOD_1's Avatar
 
Location: Escaped from Delta Vega
Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Sindatur wrote: View Post
TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
Vendikarr wrote: View Post
A cure is not what the series is about.
Already covered by my own:

..but I maintain:

...but TWD's total avoidance of something as simple as a conversation is cowardly writing
They had the Governor's Science Guy (Milton?) doing experiments for an entire half season to learn more about it. Add this to the CDC Episode and the couple conversations here and there that have been had, and it seems to me, that's at least 10-25% of the episodes that have dealt with the science/mystery of it on some level
Jenner/CDC was limited, as he had not encountered as many walkers as Rick's group, and since he did not venture beyond the CDC doors, he was operating off of old information.

It took all of season 2 to pass before Rick (in the season 2 finale) revealed what what whispered to him, and even after that, the others barely utter more than Carol's indignation that the information was concealed from the rest.
__________________
"...to be like God, you have the power to make the world anything you want it to be."
TREK_GOD_1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 22 2014, 01:01 AM   #1093
sojourner
Admiral
 
sojourner's Avatar
 
Location: I'm at WKRP
Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

And?
__________________
Baby, you and me were never meant to be, just maybe think of me once in a while...
sojourner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 22 2014, 01:04 AM   #1094
Sindatur
Vice Admiral
 
Sindatur's Avatar
 
Location: Sacramento, CA
Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
Sindatur wrote: View Post
TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post

Already covered by my own:

..but I maintain:
They had the Governor's Science Guy (Milton?) doing experiments for an entire half season to learn more about it. Add this to the CDC Episode and the couple conversations here and there that have been had, and it seems to me, that's at least 10-25% of the episodes that have dealt with the science/mystery of it on some level
Jenner/CDC was limited, as he had not encountered as many walkers as Rick's group, and since he did not venture beyond the CDC doors, he was operating off of old information.

It took all of season 2 to pass before Rick (in the season 2 finale) revealed what what whispered to him, and even after that, the others barely utter more than Carol's indignation that the information was concealed from the rest.
Yes, and then in S3, at least half episodes of the season had experimentation in Woodbury tio learn more about them.

And we've also previously had other curiosities brought up about wether the Walkers retain anything of their former lives.

So, it really hasn't been ignored, it's been questioned, and experimented on, and commented on quite a bit actually.
__________________
One Day I hope to be the Man my Cat thinks I am

Where are we going? And why are we in this Handbasket?
Sindatur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 22 2014, 02:00 AM   #1095
Trekker4747
Fleet Admiral
 
Trekker4747's Avatar
 
Location: Kansas City
Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
Sindatur wrote: View Post
TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post

Already covered by my own:

..but I maintain:
They had the Governor's Science Guy (Milton?) doing experiments for an entire half season to learn more about it. Add this to the CDC Episode and the couple conversations here and there that have been had, and it seems to me, that's at least 10-25% of the episodes that have dealt with the science/mystery of it on some level
Jenner/CDC was limited, as he had not encountered as many walkers as Rick's group, and since he did not venture beyond the CDC doors, he was operating off of old information.

It took all of season 2 to pass before Rick (in the season 2 finale) revealed what what whispered to him, and even after that, the others barely utter more than Carol's indignation that the information was concealed from the rest.
Keep in mind "all of season 2" was probably only a few weeks since the end of Season 1.
__________________
Out of hope.
Trekker4747 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
season 4, the walking dead, twd

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:39 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.