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Old November 12 2013, 10:30 AM   #616
RJDiogenes
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Triskelion wrote: View Post
RJDiogenes wrote: View Post
I agree with Daryl. Herschel is a tough sumbitch. I hope he doesn't go anywhere anytime soon.

And I don't know what to make of the little girl. Very heroic of her to lure the zombie away from Glen, but she is clearly very damaged.
Is she though? Or is this just the adaptation of youth? She is growing up in a world of Walkers, without a baseline of normalcy. IE, blood and guts are as normal to her as eating and sleeping. So is that her personality not coping? Or is that a generational adaptation and survival mechanism? The world turned, nobody knows why - Rick wonders if it's a test, and Herschel suggests it was always a test. The girl - has not been exposed to a different kind of moral human life. I guess the question becomes, is human morality a survival mechanism or a liability?
Well, she wasn't born into the world of Walkers-- she presumably had a normal and benign childhood until the apocalypse. I think they're probably going to something more along the lines of showing the effects of war and disaster on children, which would be an excellent plotline to introduce. They've already done it a bit with Carl, but with a secondary character they can take it further.

Shanndee wrote: View Post
bbjeg wrote: View Post
^If you're talking about Shane, Rick didn't do exactly what Carol did.
I think he's talking about Rick making the unilateral decision to exile Carol (which realistically could result in her death). Carol also made a unilateral decision to deal with the the infected. He's certainly a hypocrite in that respect.
Exactly. They both made their decisions and acted on them without consulting the group.

Pavonis wrote: View Post
From the CDC evidence, it appears the virus kicks in after brain death only. You shouldn't be able to resuscitate a brain-dead victim. Breathing is an autonomic response, and they'll never breathe on their own if their brain is dead. So it's not technically a problem, except that distinguishing between resuscitation and reanimation might be tricky if the victim is only dead for a few minutes, and reanimates while you're working on them. It's a risk that the medical professionals of the post-apocalyptic world will have to incorporate in their decisions when working on dying patients.
That's pretty much what I was thinking. It would be an interesting situation to have arise. What would such a person be like? Maybe that's what happened to Rick in the hospital.
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Old November 12 2013, 01:54 PM   #617
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

RJDiogenes wrote: View Post
Shanndee wrote: View Post
bbjeg wrote: View Post
^If you're talking about Shane, Rick didn't do exactly what Carol did.
I think he's talking about Rick making the unilateral decision to exile Carol (which realistically could result in her death). Carol also made a unilateral decision to deal with the the infected. He's certainly a hypocrite in that respect.
Exactly. They both made their decisions and acted on them without consulting the group.
But Rick didn't kill Carol for her actions.
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Old November 12 2013, 04:27 PM   #618
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

bbjeg wrote: View Post
RJDiogenes wrote: View Post
Shanndee wrote: View Post

I think he's talking about Rick making the unilateral decision to exile Carol (which realistically could result in her death). Carol also made a unilateral decision to deal with the the infected. He's certainly a hypocrite in that respect.
Exactly. They both made their decisions and acted on them without consulting the group.
But Rick didn't kill Carol for her actions.
I would argue that Rick did condemn Carol to death.

Carol has morphed into a person that is more than capable in their new world, but sending her out on her own is dooming her.

One wrong thrust, car troubles or any number of scenarios could end in her being zombie snack without backup.

Plus, he made a decision that could potentially rip apart their small band.

Maggie and Herschel understood, but that does not mean that everyone is going to.

Did he put Judith and Carl in more peril, by deciding Carol's punishment without consulting anyone? I would say yes.
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Old November 12 2013, 04:31 PM   #619
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

But bringing Carol back would have been a death sentence as well. Tyrese would be suspect # 1. But anyone who recovered form the flu -- and would have been one of Carol's victims, might get revenge and kill her before killed someone else.

Carol had to choice to go along with Rick's sentence. This was at least a plea bargain, where she would have been sentenced without trial or option.
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Old November 12 2013, 06:08 PM   #620
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Great Episode, lots of suspense, Daryl is right, Herschel is a tough S.O.B., there were several times there I thought he was a goner, with his speech last week and the way Maggie and Beth were talking I didn't think he would survive the Flu story line, I honestly hope the writers move past that, only so much you can watch our heroes laying around sick.

As far as Rick and Maggie/Carl adding support the to fence and someone shooting the logs, I just think those were production squibs set off to help the logs CRACK with a more dramatic effect, these types of things are getting harder and harder to hide with more and more of us having HD TVs, Rick and Carl would have heard the gunshots and those would have be hellova a shots to shoot through the Zombies, Fence from a distance in the dark, if you that good of a shot why not just shoot Rick and Carl as they were right next to the logs and pick off anyone else that comes out?

IMO the real question comes in where did that big pile of trees come from and why wasn't the time spent in cutting all that down spent in clearing the fence to begin with?
So let's spend hours and hours outside the fence cutting down trees and not inside for an hour where it's safe and actually eliminate the actual danger, in essence killing two birds with one stone.
These people have nothing but time yet they seem to waste tons of it.
As I said before, if 5 people killed a Walker a minute for one hour they would eliminate 300 walkers and I think one a minute is being very, VERY generous.
There weren't more than 50-75 (100 at the very most) walkers on the fence, this should be a very simple task to complete.
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Old November 12 2013, 06:44 PM   #621
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Kosh Naranek wrote: View Post
Plus, he made a decision that could potentially rip apart their small band.
I'm not saying it's right, but it's Rick's group again. He's done being only a farmer in that community. He's the Ricktator again. In that respect he might be the only one who can act unilaterally as he did
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Old November 12 2013, 06:54 PM   #622
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Does Rick not have anything in between "farmer-pacifist" and the Ricktator? Can't he moderate himself?
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Old November 12 2013, 06:54 PM   #623
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Yeah, as much as they have "The Council" now, I feel that everyone would pretty willingly go back to the "Ricktatorship" should he decide to step-up again. Consider they got through the nine months between S2 and S3 without any injuries or deaths. The Council has been around for a few months and, well, it's not turning out too good. Though I doubt when Rick takes over again he'll go balls-to-the-wal complete Ricktatorship like he did before but just a more active role in leading the group.
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Old November 12 2013, 08:42 PM   #624
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Eh, the Council is a peace-time thing. When they need a war-time leader, Rick's back, no more voting.

That said, what should he have done? Bringing her back would have fractured the group, and likely forced her to be executed. She killed people, and admitted to it. Ty's not going to let that slide, and since the flu hit even WITH her taking that action, can't really argue that she even helped anything by killing the (isolated) people. If anything, she went into isolation to kill them, then went out to handle their water supply, she may have CAUSED some of the infection...

So yeah, best case, Ty doesn't beat her to death, and they're forced to have a trial. She did it, and admitted it. After causing huge divides in the group, she's either executed or banished (best case) anyway. And the group is messed up because of it.

This way, she's out without having to be killed, and got supplies and a head start. Rick can control the converstaion, and sell the punishment without the heat of the moment pushing for worse.

For now, Carol couldn't come back after doing that. Which has kinda been a theme this season.

Either way, anyone have a warm fuzzy that the prison is going to be around much longer? We're not going to be having council meetings for long, between the Governor being back, the fence failing, the flu wiping people out. We've got lots of disposable extras, pretty sure we're going to thin this herd back down a bit, and we'll get our dozen or so survivors out on the road again by spring...
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Old November 12 2013, 09:14 PM   #625
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

bbjeg wrote: View Post
RJDiogenes wrote: View Post
Shanndee wrote: View Post

I think he's talking about Rick making the unilateral decision to exile Carol (which realistically could result in her death). Carol also made a unilateral decision to deal with the the infected. He's certainly a hypocrite in that respect.
Exactly. They both made their decisions and acted on them without consulting the group.
But Rick didn't kill Carol for her actions.
He sent her out on her own--with some halfassed notion that she will "find others." He does not know this. Even Carol was not certain she would surivive with her "maybe" remark.

Rick loves saving his own ass (including his kids), by resorting to hearltess decisions (ex. planning to send Michonne to the Governor), yet he cannot see Carol's action as one of true survival.
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Old November 12 2013, 09:16 PM   #626
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Shanndee wrote: View Post
bbjeg wrote: View Post
^If you're talking about Shane, Rick didn't do exactly what Carol did.
I think he's talking about Rick making the unilateral decision to exile Carol (which realistically could result in her death). Carol also made a unilateral decision to deal with the the infected. He's certainly a hypocrite in that respect.
Exactly.
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Old November 12 2013, 09:27 PM   #627
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

bbjeg wrote: View Post
She made a rash decision. She should have quarantine them and locked the cages to be sure.
"...to be sure?"

She is sure.

Sure that Karen & David were very sick before Daryl's party left the prison.

Sure that the kid was feeling ill, then dying only a few hours later meas the disease--whatever it is--works fast.

Sure that Jenner's information (everyone has the walker disesase in them) means anyone suffering from the so-called flu (at a certain level) will eventually die, only to return as a walker.

Sure that there's no hope for anyone at that stage, and did you forget how fast chaos rocked the cell block of the sick as soon as one person turned? Hershel was overwhelmed and if not for Maggie breaking in, he was as good as dead.

There's no FDA to approve any concocted treatment for this virus, or whatever it is. No labs. It is all trial and error--but one thing is certain: in the time Daryl's party was away, Karen and David would have died (again, see how fast Caleb took a turn for the worst).

Carol seems to see the bigger picture, while hypocritical Rick lives in the moment--guided by warped emotionalism.
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Old November 12 2013, 09:35 PM   #628
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
Sure that the kid was feeling ill, then dying only a few hours later meas the disease--whatever it is--works fast.
But she had no idea what the incubation period is, so that by the time the kid was symptomatic, anyone could have had it. The fact the he died rather quickly doesn't mean much. The flu is not 100% communicable, nor 100% fatal, so killing Karen and David before they died was unnecessary. They may have survived it. There was no advantage to killing them sooner rather than later, and obviously doing so did no good anyway. The flu still spread and some lived, some died. Karen and David might've lived.
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Old November 12 2013, 10:14 PM   #629
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Sasha showed signs early on. She is likely going to survive. Each person's mortality rate might be different, if all we're really talking about is a flu or virus in their system, that some antibiotics & stuff found at a vet college ends up quelling
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Old November 12 2013, 11:33 PM   #630
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

RJDiogenes wrote: View Post
Triskelion wrote: View Post
RJDiogenes wrote: View Post
I agree with Daryl. Herschel is a tough sumbitch. I hope he doesn't go anywhere anytime soon.

And I don't know what to make of the little girl. Very heroic of her to lure the zombie away from Glen, but she is clearly very damaged.
Is she though? Or is this just the adaptation of youth? She is growing up in a world of Walkers, without a baseline of normalcy. IE, blood and guts are as normal to her as eating and sleeping. So is that her personality not coping? Or is that a generational adaptation and survival mechanism? The world turned, nobody knows why - Rick wonders if it's a test, and Herschel suggests it was always a test. The girl - has not been exposed to a different kind of moral human life. I guess the question becomes, is human morality a survival mechanism or a liability?
Well, she wasn't born into the world of Walkers-- she presumably had a normal and benign childhood until the apocalypse. I think they're probably going to something more along the lines of showing the effects of war and disaster on children, which would be an excellent plotline to introduce. They've already done it a bit with Carl, but with a secondary character they can take it further.
I agree; she doesn't have the benefit of a strong parent role. Might be an interesting dynamic between her and Carl.


PKerr wrote: View Post

As far as Rick and Maggie/Carl adding support the to fence and someone shooting the logs, I just think those were production squibs set off to help the logs CRACK with a more dramatic effect, these types of things are getting harder and harder to hide with more and more of us having HD TVs, Rick and Carl would have heard the gunshots and those would have be hellova a shots to shoot through the Zombies, Fence from a distance in the dark, if you that good of a shot why not just shoot Rick and Carl as they were right next to the logs and pick off anyone else that comes out?

...

As I said before, if 5 people killed a Walker a minute for one hour they would eliminate 300 walkers and I think one a minute is being very, VERY generous.

There weren't more than 50-75 (100 at the very most) walkers on the fence, this should be a very simple task to complete.

This is very reasonable. Not to belabor the point, but as for the question "why not just shoot Rick and Carl?" I can think of a reason. Sniping Rick and Carl means that the prisoner group would recognize the outside threat. Creating a zombie insurgence would mean the group lose faith in Rick as leader, as well as have to fight off a horde of zombies. I would not be surprised if the Governor wanted to either rule the prison or kill them all. First, he'd have to work on undermining Rick's authority to prime the situation and make them ready to win their hearts and minds when he comes to the rescue of a situation Rick had lost control of. (I know I'm just spitballing). So I could understand why the Guv wouldn't reveal himself with an assassination; I can't understand why Rick hasn't started investigating outside the perimeter to explain this buildup of Walkers.

I also agree that someone should always be on fence detail, constantly clearing out the walkers, or at least finding out where they're coming from. They need a scientist to study the migratory habits of Walkers. S/He should tag a few.


Carol chafing at Rick making a unilateral decision for her fate is a bit like protesting to end the right to assembly. It. Rings. Hollow. (Though some do).

Rick's decisions haven't really been about expressing newfound empowerment or trying to prove something to himself. In her zeal, Carol has been acting more like Shane. Exiling her was a mercy. He could have subscribed to her philosophy and knifed her as she slept. One person's determination of what was best for the group was good enough criteria for her.
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