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Old November 6 2013, 05:32 AM   #541
JD
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Wow, that was a hell of an episode. I definitely did not expect the ending. I can definitely understand why Rick sent her off, she overacted to a situation that they barely understood at that point, and then continued to act recklessly. As for what she did, I can understand the thought process that lead to it, but I don't agree with it. At that point the sickness had barely started to infect that prison, and they didn't really know exactly how it was going to behave on a regular basis. Just because one person dies doesn't mean it's going to kill everybody who gets it, in the right situations the flu can kill, that doesn't mean if I get the flu tomorrow I'm going to be dead by the end of the week. Now, what she did might have been necessary eventually, I just think she should have waited until she had more information. They were isolated, and weren't an immediate thread.
I was wondering if perhaps her leaving was actually the set up for the spin-off. Maybe it could follow Carol in the Rick role in a new group.
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Old November 6 2013, 06:16 AM   #542
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

PKerr wrote: View Post
DarthTom wrote: View Post
PKerr wrote: View Post
Why would you be a fan of something that totally blows away anything you've ever done in the genre and makes you irrelevant?
I suppose. It's akin to Majel Barrett [rest her soul] or Gene Roddenberry telling JJ Abrams he's destroyed Trek.

I dunno - a little more acclaim from the original of all the Zombie producers to the most successful today would have been more gracious - on his part.
Well that would be a true statement.

I don't think TWD makes Romero irrelevant. If anything, Romero's influence obviously continues to enrich our lives with great storytelling in his genre of invention.

"Relevance" and "freshness" are two separate ideas. For example, some may think it's relevant they can still speak English in England, but to other folks, it seems a natural entitlement not worth a second thought. Is it? (I find Piers Morgan's tirades against the US right to bear arms hilariously ironic - but alas, not satirical). ANYWAY....



Carol lost me when she traumatized the little girls losing their father by letting them hang around for the euthanasia - let alone shoving a knife in their hands and telling them - not only to kill someone but start with their father.

She went rogue and she knew it - otherwise she wouldn't be so willing to actually go rogue in the end.

Carol should have waited five minutes for Karen & David to turn and avoid creating a lot of drama. It would have made no difference. So yeah, to me it's pretty clear she consciously stepped over the line cause she's high on her new badassery. Problem is, everyone else has to pay for it.

I hope it's not the last we see of her though. I'm also glad Carl's not (yet) stepping into Shane's antagonistic role. He's still got a lot to learn from his father.



If you knew Shane and you knew Rick - I think it would be pretty clear what was coming. By that time Rick had not lost control that I can think of. His fighting Tyreese though is starting to show the wear around the edges of his self-control.



Tyreese is a time bomb.




George Romero's (albeit disappointing) dismissal of TWD for its lack of satire or political criticism may not be the fault of the TWD producers' values. It may reflect changes in the culture and industry that are bigger than any one series.

Changes like the comicification of entertainment. The conventionalization of big budget productions - you don't see shows that are raw, quirky or daring or adversarial as much as you used to; though offending people for its own sake is common.

Satire takes a sense of humor, which is nowadays reserved for ninety minute dick and fart jokes. Tina Fey and John Stewart notwithstanding. Network television can be very toothless about genuine social antagonism. Oh, and "irony" - ain't it.

Case in point - we're watching zombie shows. Once, that was a new idea. There are still new ideas to be made, instead of generation after generation of franchises and tropes and remakes.

In other words, part of his criticism may be the fact that it's not the 60's and 70's any more. Much culture today is clean and safe, cautious, over-planned and anodyne. Focused on the effects; and sometimes taking itself too seriously.

Last edited by Triskelion; November 6 2013 at 06:28 AM.
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Old November 6 2013, 10:49 AM   #543
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

It's too bad that Romero doesn't like Walking Dead. It's certainly different from his style of storytelling, but so what? Variety is the spice of life.
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Old November 6 2013, 12:11 PM   #544
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Triskelion wrote: View Post
Carol lost me when she traumatized the little girls losing their father by letting them hang around for the euthanasia - let alone shoving a knife in their hands and telling them - not only to kill someone but start with their father.
Actually the oldest of the little girls suggested she be the one to euthanaise their father but backed out.
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Old November 6 2013, 01:26 PM   #545
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
Triskelion wrote: View Post
Carol lost me when she traumatized the little girls losing their father by letting them hang around for the euthanasia - let alone shoving a knife in their hands and telling them - not only to kill someone but start with their father.
Actually the oldest of the little girls suggested she be the one to euthanaise their father but backed out.
Yea, that's definitely a relevant point many keep leaving out. Carol was going to do it, it was only after the girl insisted it be a family member that Carol relented and allowed it, and only after she froze (Putting herself in danger) that Carol encouraged/ tried to "force" her to do it.
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Old November 6 2013, 01:54 PM   #546
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Triskelion wrote: View Post
I'm also glad Carl's not (yet) stepping into Shane's antagonistic role. He's still got a lot to learn from his father.
...like plotting to hand over another person to a certain death save your own ass...oh, I mean "protect the group."



Changes like the comicification of entertainment. The conventionalization of big budget productions - you don't see shows that are raw, quirky or daring or adversarial as much as you used to; though offending people for its own sake is common.
Actually, the producers of the various AMC series pride themselves on being "raw," or "daring," simply because of the content--like the last 20 years of drama series thinking content cannot be relevant unless pushing buttons (incessantly), being offensive or depressing in one way or another,
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Old November 6 2013, 06:11 PM   #547
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
Triskelion wrote: View Post
I'm also glad Carl's not (yet) stepping into Shane's antagonistic role. He's still got a lot to learn from his father.
...like plotting to hand over another person to a certain death save your own ass...oh, I mean "protect the group."
Shouldn't he be condemned by his actions and not his thoughts/plans? After some soul searching he realized he couldn't do it.
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Old November 6 2013, 06:12 PM   #548
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

RJDiogenes wrote: View Post
It's too bad that Romero doesn't like Walking Dead. It's certainly different from his style of storytelling, but so what? Variety is the spice of life.
Slow moving zombies and everyone that has adopted the, "Romero Style," on how they move and act is an homage to him and the genre that he started.

That he fails to see that is baffling.
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Old November 6 2013, 06:45 PM   #549
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

TheMurph wrote: View Post
TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
Triskelion wrote: View Post
I'm also glad Carl's not (yet) stepping into Shane's antagonistic role. He's still got a lot to learn from his father.
...like plotting to hand over another person to a certain death save your own ass...oh, I mean "protect the group."
Shouldn't he be condemned by his actions and not his thoughts/plans? After some soul searching he realized he couldn't do it.
Exactly. He thought about it, but decided not to do it in the end.
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Old November 6 2013, 07:12 PM   #550
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Slight tangent here, but Chris Jericho was awesome as a guest on Talking Dead afterwards, yes? I normally just skip through the random episode discussion to get to the behind the scenes stuff (reading the thread here is much more fulfilling!), but I was blown away by how prepared he was and how eloquently he presented his points. Made Gillian Jacobs seem mute by comparison, and I know she can be talkative too.

Yonks better than what they had last week with Marylin Manson, for whom Hardwick had several indirect jabs this time. Not that Manson would be watching... It seems to be he wouldn't even remember being there last week.

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Old November 6 2013, 10:36 PM   #551
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Yes. I was also amazed at how prepared and well spoken he was. He had points that he definitely wanted to make and he made sure that they were all addressed.

Two thumbs up!
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Old November 6 2013, 11:39 PM   #552
Mojochi
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

sojourner wrote: View Post
TheMurph wrote: View Post
TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post

...like plotting to hand over another person to a certain death save your own ass...oh, I mean "protect the group."
Shouldn't he be condemned by his actions and not his thoughts/plans? After some soul searching he realized he couldn't do it.
Exactly. He thought about it, but decided not to do it in the end.
Hell, the only reason Merle attempted to do it himself was because he, much like anyone who knows Rick more than 10 minutes, knew he didn't have the stomach to hand someone over to be executed for no reason, even if he was conflicted & questioning himself about it

Condemning someone for having doubts or being conflicted shows no respect for their ongoing crisis. People in crisis don't always have the right answer at hand
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Old November 6 2013, 11:42 PM   #553
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Surprised about Carol being exiled from the group.

Not expecting her to be gone for too long though. When Daryl "left" in season 2 he returned back to the group at the the very end of the following episode!
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Old November 7 2013, 12:58 AM   #554
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Shanndee wrote: View Post
Yes. I was also amazed at how prepared and well spoken he was. He had points that he definitely wanted to make and he made sure that they were all addressed.

Two thumbs up!
Huge upgrade over Marilyn Manson and his long-winded tangents that trailed off.
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Old November 7 2013, 03:41 AM   #555
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Really, talking chimp would have been an improvement over Manson. Next week should be good to with Adam Savage.
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