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Old October 28 2013, 04:03 PM   #316
Trekker4747
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

An interesting revelation but, Jesus, when did Carol join the Dark Side?!
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Old October 28 2013, 04:20 PM   #317
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

DarthTom wrote: View Post
That's a great observation and one of the flaws of TWD in terms of a suspension of disbelief that the world was overtaken by slow moving zombies.
Doesn't really have anything to do with Zombie speed, IMO. WWZ had 'fast' zombies in the movie, but it was stupid and done because the sfx looked kewl. The zombies in the book weren't especially fast, they were effectively fighting them hand to hand, with dogs, etc. None of that works with the fast super-zombie force of nature that WWZ the movie showed.

WWZ DID show a world taken over by slow zombies, it just didn't try and show it happening overnight. It took a while for things to break down. But it did a great job of explaining all the ways things go wrong for that to happen. TWD just skipped to the end, but only left a few weeks to get there, which is dumb and hard to defend. It shows a breakdown which should take years to achieve, and gives weeks to get there (at most, even assuming Rick survives via magic instead of medical science).
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Old October 28 2013, 04:27 PM   #318
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Scout101 wrote: View Post
WWZ DID show a world taken over by slow zombies, it just didn't try and show it happening overnight. It took a while for things to break down. But it did a great job of explaining all the ways things go wrong for that to happen. TWD just skipped to the end, but only left a few weeks to get there, which is dumb and hard to defend. It shows a breakdown which should take years to achieve, and gives weeks to get there (at most, even assuming Rick survives via magic instead of medical science).
That's true. And what makes the book version of WWZ even more plausible is basically the infection goes out of control because the government tries to cover up the fact that the cure they had was a faux one.

For all the bickering in the TWD world about functional government or not - it seems more likely that some sort of working government survived the zombie plauge but Rick's group is simply cut off from it and they are not transmitting over FM or AM radio - perhaps not to attract a large group of refugees.
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Old October 28 2013, 04:37 PM   #319
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
An interesting revelation but, Jesus, when did Carol join the Dark Side?!
I agree I would have liked to see maybe a trigger for Carol to have really turned in this direction, but the show has been pretty clear all season so far that she's become a much more hardened version of herself. She's been entirely no nonsense all season about doing what's necessary to survive. I suppose you could argue there has been a gradual change, but there's clearly a difference between this season and last, so I would have liked to see exactly what caused that difference.
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Old October 28 2013, 04:39 PM   #320
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Again, the death of Sophia would have been the catalyst for that but that's been almost a year ago now. Last season she still seemed pretty... "normal" and all crushing on Daryl. But now she's turned into a pretty damn dark person. Something had to have happened in the intervening time between now and Woodbury.
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Old October 28 2013, 04:42 PM   #321
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

dansigal wrote: View Post
I suppose you could argue there has been a gradual change, but there's clearly a difference between this season and last, so I would have liked to see exactly what caused that difference.
Carol hasn't been the same since Lori's death and being trapped in the tombs. In fact if you recall she was operating on zombie's to practice a c-section for Judith's birth - so she had already started that trip around the bend for a while.
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Old October 28 2013, 04:46 PM   #322
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

DarthTom wrote: View Post
dansigal wrote: View Post
I suppose you could argue there has been a gradual change, but there's clearly a difference between this season and last, so I would have liked to see exactly what caused that difference.
Carol hasn't been the same since Lori's death and being trapped in the tombs. In fact if you recall she was operating on zombie's to practice a c-section for Judith's birth - so she had already started that trip around the bend for a while.
There's a big difference between using a zombie as a cadaver for an impending surgery and killing two alive people and burning their bodies.
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Old October 28 2013, 05:21 PM   #323
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Was what Carol did really that "dark"? She was trying to prevent a plague. She failed, but stopping it early was a good idea. She should've talked to others about it, but then she has seen how the group will talk in circles about difficult choices (recall season 2, and the unending discussion about whether to kill their prisoner), so doing something unilaterally probably seemed to be the smarter choice when time was short.

At any rate, I don't think there's a necessarily a "trigger" for Carol's behavior, just a slow and steady progression towards cold, logical decision-making.
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Old October 28 2013, 05:28 PM   #324
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

She did tell Andrea to sleep with the Governor and kill him while he slept. Andrea didn't and wound up dead at the Governor's hands. I'm sure that affected her enough fror her to do what she did this season.
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Old October 28 2013, 05:30 PM   #325
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Was what Carol did really that "dark"? She was trying to prevent a plague.
That's why the people were contained in A-Block/Death Row. To prevent the spread of the illness.

And yes what she did was dark considering she killed two living people not posing a meaningful threat. What she did with the bodies is another discussion, but she still killed to living/non-walker people who were contained. That's pretty damn dark.

Along another line... It's a common TV/movie trope to do this but covering your mouth/nose with a mask or cloth doesn't do anything to protect the wearer. If you can breathe through it you can breathe in germs/viruses/bacteria given that those things are aerosolized in air molecules which your mask is porous too. Wearing mask protects OTHERS from YOUR germs, coughs, spittle because the mask can contain those things (aerosolized germs and such being much more contained just off the mouth than in open air.)

So, really, everyone wearing a covering in the episode isn't doing themselves too much good. No harm, sure, (and it's is SOME protection from flying spittle/blood) but it's not a 100% defense from germs and viruses in the air.

Is it me or did this episode step down the aggressiveness of the virus? In the first episode Patrick goes from "not feeling well" to cough up blood and dying within a few hours. Right now it seems everyone is sort of managing the virus a bit better.
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Old October 28 2013, 05:43 PM   #326
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
Was what Carol did really that "dark"? She was trying to prevent a plague.
That's why the people were contained in A-Block/Death Row. To prevent the spread of the illness.

And yes what she did was dark considering she killed two living people not posing a meaningful threat. What she did with the bodies is another discussion, but she still killed to living/non-walker people who were contained. That's pretty damn dark.

Along another line... It's a common TV/movie trope to do this but covering your mouth/nose with a mask or cloth doesn't do anything to protect the wearer. If you can breathe through it you can breathe in germs/viruses/bacteria given that those things are aerosolized in air molecules which your mask is porous too. Wearing mask protects OTHERS from YOUR germs, coughs, spittle because the mask can contain those things (aerosolized germs and such being much more contained just off the mouth than in open air.)

So, really, everyone wearing a covering in the episode isn't doing themselves too much good. No harm, sure, (and it's is SOME protection from flying spittle/blood) but it's not a 100% defense from germs and viruses in the air.

Is it me or did this episode step down the aggressiveness of the virus? In the first episode Patrick goes from "not feeling well" to cough up blood and dying within a few hours. Right now it seems everyone is sort of managing the virus a bit better.
Maybe Patrick was a sickly type person and it affected him quicker?
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Old October 28 2013, 05:55 PM   #327
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Pavonis wrote: View Post
At any rate, I don't think there's a necessarily a "trigger" for Carol's behavior, just a slow and steady progression towards cold, logical decision-making.
We saw the same progression with Shane and that didn't end well. Albiet Shane was a little more around the bend by the end than Carol is currently. I wonder if she's headed down the path of, "logical decision-making," to outright paranoia as we saw with him?
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Old October 28 2013, 06:04 PM   #328
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

OK, I guess since she admitted that she killed them, they must have still been alive at the time. At the end of the previous episode, it wasn't clear to me whether Karen and David were already dead, or had been killed. So, yeah, killing the living is generally a dark deed.

What would the old Rick, the Ricktator, have done before turning soft? Would he have preemptively killed Karen and David?
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Old October 28 2013, 07:15 PM   #329
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

God, Manson on Talking Dead was painful to watch.
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Old October 28 2013, 07:17 PM   #330
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

^Yeah, that was bad.
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