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Old October 25 2013, 08:04 AM   #256
Immolatus
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

just as a side thought, do you think their are any governments left in the world?
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Old October 25 2013, 09:47 AM   #257
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Possibly, maybe other parts of the world weren't hit as hard and the infection was contained. That would still leave them with enough problems of their own and no one would care about a few survivors in rural Georgia, they'd try secure their own territory and surviving population and maybe take a peak at North America a decade from now.
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Old October 25 2013, 02:24 PM   #258
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Immolatus wrote: View Post
just as a side thought, do you think their are any governments left in the world?
Why not? Humans are organized, and function even during the worst of wartime situations--when thinking opposition is trying to kill you with weapons. We can guess no one is keeping 9 to 5 hours and taking happy strolls down main street, but as we see in riot or war periods, sections of cities..borders are set up to protect the central governing body. How long is anyone's guess, but everything cannot drop like dominoes in a few months or year.

I consider dealing with thinking humans a greater problem than wandering walkers.
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Old October 25 2013, 03:40 PM   #259
Corran Horn
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Immolatus wrote: View Post
just as a side thought, do you think their are any governments left in the world?
My way of thinking on that changed once it turned out everybody who dies from anything turns. Walkers would spread much more quickly that way.
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Old October 25 2013, 04:58 PM   #260
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

A bunch of officials hiding in a bunker somewhere dose not a government make. If there's no effective chain of command, not direct communications or infrastructure of any kind then you don't even have a country, much less a government to run it.

At best you're going to get small pockets of holdouts that managed to find a fortified position with access to fresh water, some means of growing their own food and a good sized stockpile of weapons, ammo and medical supplies. Those are going to be few and far between because as we clearly saw, having stuff means there's ten times as many people out there with noting and desperate enough to kill you for it. And a thousand more waiting to kill them once they're all tired and distracted beating your skull in. So holding into it is going to be a battle on two fronts.

It's no accident the one of the main tropes of modern zombie fiction is the idea that the greatest threat is almost always internal conflict.
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Old October 25 2013, 05:57 PM   #261
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Reverend wrote: View Post
A bunch of officials hiding in a bunker somewhere dose not a government make. If there's no effective chain of command, not direct communications or infrastructure of any kind then you don't even have a country, much less a government to run it.

At best you're going to get small pockets of holdouts that managed to find a fortified position with access to fresh water, some means of growing their own food and a good sized stockpile of weapons, ammo and medical supplies. Those are going to be few and far between because as we clearly saw, having stuff means there's ten times as many people out there with noting and desperate enough to kill you for it. And a thousand more waiting to kill them once they're all tired and distracted beating your skull in. So holding into it is going to be a battle on two fronts.
As it stands, the central government has more than bunkers and bottled water in the event of war. From defense, backup communication/power to food supplies, there's no reason to think walkers are going to shut down everything, or that those in command and subordinates are all going to scatter to the winds. Containment would be the first objective--for as long as it could last.

It's no accident the one of the main tropes of modern zombie fiction is the idea that the greatest threat is almost always internal conflict.
...unless you have a disciplined group beating down dissidents (think Shane). Even Woodbury was free of true internal conflict until the arrival of Andrea and Michone.
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Old October 25 2013, 09:03 PM   #262
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Communications are no good if there's nobody on the other end to pick-up. We saw in the flashbacks that containment is exactly what they tried. It didn't work. For obvious reasons, modern militaries are neither trained nor equipped to deal with a global pandemic in which corpses rise from the dead and eat people. They're equipped to deal with people with guns, tanks, aircraft, bombs and missiles.

Indeed, I think a fairly good indicator that the system totally collapsed is that (as far as we know) the infected zones didn't get nuked. Had someone still been in charge, you can bet that would have been the next logical step after the napalm failed to contain the hordes.

Also, how is the town's leader having trouble makers murdered and keeping their undead severed heads in his fish tank not "internal conflict"? Shane's not a good example either since he lost it and tried to murder his best friend so he could sleep with his wife again. Do you think all the Presidents, Prime Ministers, Generals and Admirals of the world are immune to just loosing their shit at the sheer scale of the horror?

And I'm sorry, but brutal oppression does not equate to governance and it's not sustainable. Just look at that town from the Telltale game. They were disciplined, organised, had strong leadership and were willing to stop at *nothing* to survive. Didn't do them any good.
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Old October 25 2013, 09:37 PM   #263
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

I think it's pretty clear all of society has collapsed and the walker-to-human ratio is pretty damn high. I'd say no meaningful governments stand aside from maybe places that were already brutal dictatorships (like North Korea, for example.) If anything of government survived there'd be *some* attempt to communicate and/or bring relief to the survivors. So from that we can say, at the very least, America's government has not survived and with that as a benchmark it's probably not too far to speculate that other governments fell as well especially in countries that are much close-quartered. Places like Japan are probably complete nightmares with very, very few survivors.
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Old October 25 2013, 10:01 PM   #264
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

The walker-to-human ratio must be very high, but population is not evenly distributed. The least populated parts of the world may be much, much safer than rural Georgia. Maybe the President and the government relocated to North Dakota?

Consider the far northern and southern latitudes, too. In World War Z (the book), survivors were much safer in the far north during the winters, when the zombies would freeze solid. Only during spring would they start moving again. During the winters, survivors could do a lot to build themselves a safe zone and work to pick off walkers while they're frozen. Of course, they'd have to survive the winters, and that's not trivial, but still....
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Old October 25 2013, 10:17 PM   #265
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Well, the show skipped the winter and all we got on it was some speculation from Rick in a S2 episode saying to Shane that the cold "must effect them somehow." I don't think we've ever been told (in the show) how the cold/winter effected the Walkers.

And I can't think of anything in "zombie lore" that says definitive one way or another, particularly in Romero zombies (which TWD tries to stick with.)

But if it does effect them then, yeah, the northern latitudes likely would have faired better in all of this. Sparsely populated areas likely faired decently, as you say, rural Georgia seems to be doing.. fair. But we've also seen how the "herd mentality" has caused things to snowball bringing the Walkers together and into the more sparsely populated areas.

Places that are even more sparsely populated probably have faired even better, places like the South West are probably doing okay, especially if we maybe wonder if extreme heat and dry conditions impacts them in some way.
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Old October 25 2013, 10:27 PM   #266
Pavonis
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

TWD seems to be trying to stick to physics more than most TV shows do. They've had characters discern that walkers need to consume something to keep going, else they'll starve to death. So walkers aren't perpetual motion machines. They must be susceptible to heat and cold, too. Hannah, the bicycle zombie from the first episode, looked rather dried out, so evaporation of fluids must still effect the walkers.

And "rural" Georgia isn't that rural. There's still millions of people in Georgia, but there's only 600,000 people in all of North Dakota. If the government could secure one city in the middle of nowhere, they'd have a base to operate from and way to secure more territory over time.

Maybe someday Rick's group will run into a remnant of the government.
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Old October 26 2013, 11:07 AM   #267
Marten
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

There is one problem with containing the walkers. Since all people who die turn, there is really no way you can ever be safe. A government would have to keep track on everyone, all the time. It only takes one accident to turn a safe town into a disaster. It can be managed, most likely, but it will be tricky.
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Old October 26 2013, 01:11 PM   #268
shivkala
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

^
Exactly, a secure bunker would only be secure until someone on the inside died. Then, as we saw last week', all it takes is one dead body to turn and start biting others.
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Old October 26 2013, 03:43 PM   #269
sojourner
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

^As I have said before, in a society where zombies rise with every death, locked bedroom doors would be the norm. Everyone would sleep alone.
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Old October 26 2013, 04:07 PM   #270
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

How, exactly, do they lock the cell doors? I imagine there's not enough keys for everyone and they're not exactly designed to be opened by those inside. Though, if everyone had their own key, it would make sense for everyone to be locked in.
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