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Old April 10 2014, 02:13 AM   #2371
TREK_GOD_1
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

shivkala wrote: View Post
Maybe they did run into Tyreese and Carol, but, then again, do you trust the cavalry with saving you and protecting your infant daughter? Or to a teenager and the person(s) who kidnapped her? Or the crazy/still grieving father who blames you for his son's death?
In Morgan's case, increasingly tough times sometimes demand strange bedfellows.

If Carol and Tyreese arrived, but also ran into Beth, it only takes one to watch Judith, while the others make their move.

And, while you put your trust in one of those choices, do you take your (arguably) two best fighters with you, instead of leaving one or both of them to bust you out?

Not to mention, we're all sitting her armchair quarterbacking what they should have done forgetting these are wounded (Daryl and Rick), hungry people, who probably haven't been sleeping well, either. Everyone who's ever studied decision making will tell you any one of those three things will mess up your judgment. All of them? It's amazing these people are functioning as well as they are.
Well, something has Rick making his confident statement. He does not have hidden weapons (unless as a police officer, he knew how to hide it from an amateur pat down).

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Rick and his group have managed to survive long enough learn the value of both peace and war. I'd say that makes them more dangerous than average because they're smarter than the "kill 'em take their stuff" predators, they're tougher than the "just leave us alone!" civilians, and they're wise enough to know a higher standard of behavior. While that doesn't sound like much, they won't raid others and so on, which means they won't make nearly as many enemies as those who do.
Rational ideas. Rick's group are the ZA balance, only going off in a "fringe" direction when absolutely necessary (Rick biting Joe's neck, the initial, pacifistic plan to release Randall, despite the danger he posed if he reunited with his allies, etc.).

Maybe that--barring overwhelming circumstances--is what gives them the edge: other groups only operate in extremes of violence, threats or barbarity. As seen with Tomas, Randall's bar friends or Woodbury--barbarity only opened the floodgates of self destruction.
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Old April 10 2014, 08:20 AM   #2372
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Wow, I have to strongly disagree with everybody that's suggesting that Rick has some backup waiting outside for them. That ruins that entire scene.

The whole point of that last line, full of confidence, is that Rick finally accepted who he is and what he has to do to survive. He looks inward at himself, and then he looks at all the asskickers standing there in the traincar with him, and he knows for an absolute fact that they will get out of this!
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Old April 10 2014, 10:01 AM   #2373
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

That's my take on it, too. The episode began with a no-win situation-- ruthless barbarians had guns to their heads and no interest in negotiating. But they got out of it. Just like the conversation about hunger and the demonstration of the trap foreshadowed the cannibals, that scene foreshadowed the ending. Carl asked who they are, and that's who they are-- the survivors.
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Old April 10 2014, 04:30 PM   #2374
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
Rational ideas. Rick's group are the ZA balance, only going off in a "fringe" direction when absolutely necessary (Rick biting Joe's neck, the initial, pacifistic plan to release Randall, despite the danger he posed if he reunited with his allies, etc.).

Maybe that--barring overwhelming circumstances--is what gives them the edge: other groups only operate in extremes of violence, threats or barbarity. As seen with Tomas, Randall's bar friends or Woodbury--barbarity only opened the floodgates of self destruction.
I kind of see it that way too now. Clearly the ultimate way to live is to be open to living every way, as conditions require. We are now into yet another group who think they have the best way to live figured out & are sticking to it. That is a disadvantage, assuming one way to live is all you need to do, the way Woodbury did, or the way they thought at the prison. People who think they got it figured out are destined to be ruined eventually

That's what Rick's final words meant. What all their experiences add up to makes them rather profoundly tenacious, and that is this. Of all the groups or gangs we've seen in 4 seasons, the trait that none of them have more so than Rick's current band, is adaptability.

Evolution is just continuing to adapt to accept preferred or necessary advantages
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Old April 10 2014, 05:11 PM   #2375
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

I'm thinking they could loosely adapt a scene from the comics and have Rick & Co. brutally slaughter everyone in the camp in just a matter of minutes.
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Old April 10 2014, 07:03 PM   #2376
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Starbreaker wrote: View Post
I'm thinking they could loosely adapt a scene from the comics and have Rick & Co. brutally slaughter everyone in the camp in just a matter of minutes.
I would like to see that.
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Old April 10 2014, 10:18 PM   #2377
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Mojochi wrote: View Post
TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
Rational ideas. Rick's group are the ZA balance, only going off in a "fringe" direction when absolutely necessary (Rick biting Joe's neck, the initial, pacifistic plan to release Randall, despite the danger he posed if he reunited with his allies, etc.).

Maybe that--barring overwhelming circumstances--is what gives them the edge: other groups only operate in extremes of violence, threats or barbarity. As seen with Tomas, Randall's bar friends or Woodbury--barbarity only opened the floodgates of self destruction.
I kind of see it that way too now. Clearly the ultimate way to live is to be open to living every way, as conditions require. We are now into yet another group who think they have the best way to live figured out & are sticking to it. That is a disadvantage, assuming one way to live is all you need to do, the way Woodbury did, or the way they thought at the prison. People who think they got it figured out are destined to be ruined eventually

That's what Rick's final words meant. What all their experiences add up to makes them rather profoundly tenacious, and that is this. Of all the groups or gangs we've seen in 4 seasons, the trait that none of them have more so than Rick's current band, is adaptability.

Evolution is just continuing to adapt to accept preferred or necessary advantages
All true. But I would add: it's more than just being adaptable. It appears the Terminus folks have made adaptations that have worked quite nicely, and it's going to backfire on them anyway. And really, I'd say Michonne did a good job of adapting before she met Andrea, but she also lost herself in the process.

I'd repeat that Rick's group is unique because they hold to a higher standard (or at least remain moderate) while still being willing to adapt. Like TREK_GOD_1 said, they're capable of going off in a "fringe" direction when necessary, but only then.

What it adds up to is that Rick's group wasn't adaptable until they learned it the hard way. They've had a lot of costly lessons, but they did learn. It could be argued that Joe's group was extremely adaptable as well ... but they learned nothing.

The "learning" aspect and the "peace vs. war" aspect I mentioned earlier could almost be broken down into seasons.

In Season 1 they were just plain learning about their situation.

In Season 2 they tried to practice peace on the farm. They learned some hard lessons from that. Fortunately, they managed to survive the lessons.

In Season 3 they practiced, if not war, then significant hostility. We had the return of the Ricktatorship, the kick-ass raid to clean out the prison, Rick's suspicion of Tyrese's group which led to kicking them out, raiding Woodbury, and almost turning over Michonne. Michonne trying to practice her survival-hostility and seeing what was likely to happen if she kept it up. Daryl trying to go back to his old ways with his brother and discovering that he couldn't. Eventually they (or at least Rick, Michonne, and Daryl) learned the futility of much of that. Again, fortunately they managed to survive the lessons.

Finally, Season 4 was about integrating both war and peace, and practicing both moderation and adaptability. That's where they are now. In the future surviving their lessons won't happen just because they're fortunate, but because, as you say, they've evolved.
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Old April 10 2014, 11:41 PM   #2378
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Not related to this discussion, but I finally started reading the comics for the first time and I gotta say... I find the storytelling and character work in the TV series to be far richer and more interesting than what was done in the comic (whether it's making Hershel a more religious father-figure type or keeping Shane around a lot longer).

And I also far prefer the more minimalistic dialogue of the series as well. The comic has SO much freakin talking going on, with the characters constantly explaining how they feel about everything, that it kinda gets in the way of the suspense at times. The greater use of silence on the series is a fantastic choice that I'm really glad they made.

That said, it's still a very fun read and fascinating to see all the subtle differences between the two. I'm only up to issue 14 so far, so I have yet to see what the comic's version of the Governor is like...
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Old April 11 2014, 03:31 AM   #2379
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Silvercrest wrote: View Post
Rick's suspicion of Tyrese's group which led to kicking them out,
I think you're misremembering or misinterpreting that scene. Rick was full crazy then, and he was shouting at Lori's ghost to get out of his head. Everyone else just assumed that he meant he wanted Tyrese to leave.
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Old April 11 2014, 07:58 AM   #2380
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

kitik wrote: View Post
The whole point of that last line, full of confidence, is that Rick finally accepted who he is and what he has to do to survive. He looks inward at himself, and then he looks at all the asskickers standing there in the traincar with him, and he knows for an absolute fact that they will get out of this!
I agree. I think that's more satisfying dramatically, too. It also answers Carls' question from earlier in the episode about what kind of people they are. I like it; it works for me!
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Old April 11 2014, 10:00 AM   #2381
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

kitik wrote: View Post
Silvercrest wrote: View Post
Rick's suspicion of Tyrese's group which led to kicking them out,
I think you're misremembering or misinterpreting that scene. Rick was full crazy then, and he was shouting at Lori's ghost to get out of his head. Everyone else just assumed that he meant he wanted Tyrese to leave.
I'm pretty sure he did kick Tyrese and friends out, but you're right that he was full-on crazy at the time.
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Old April 11 2014, 05:23 PM   #2382
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

That was how I remembered it. Anyway, my point was that (I think) Rick was pretty cold toward them since they arrived, which connects with the S3 "hostile" theme. After that: Kicking them out intentionally, or as a crazy act, or if they just ran for it, is icing on the cake.
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Old April 15 2014, 04:29 PM   #2383
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

This past weekend I finally got caught up and finished S4. Did a mini-marathon and watched the last four episodes.

I finally get the "Babysitter Wanted" poster memes that popped up all over FB. I mean seriously, there is so little courtesy anymore.

My thought is that while the season as a whole is wholly enjoyable I find myself unsure about my excitement for S5 vs other cliffhangers. The show has slid into a repetitive nature.
Make home, get run out, spend time mixed up on the road with someone new, come back together, Make home---rinse and repeat.

Who has Beth? Was the house itself a "bait house" by the Terminus folk? Will we find out she's there as well? They spent too much time building her character up to just disappear and not be around at the start of next season.

Darryl, come on now. As soon as backwoods biker has Rick at gunpoint AND YOU SEE THIS, put one in his eye socket. You don't talk down a guy like this. Poorly handled by Darryl and they all took a beating they need not. Also, why didn't Carl have his gun ready in the vehicle to pop that fat porker pedophile when he opened the door? So much wrong with that scene and done just for drama I suppose.

Abraham and his duo, not sure what to make of them. They've been on the road since Houston. That officially makes it the farthest confirmed place that I trust. I don't trust those guys who said they were from Philly for some reason in S3. Also, if they've been on the road that long how can "Mr. Super Smart" not have had any gun training at all? His total piss poor handling of a gun that "kills" their military transport is funny in it's sadness. I've heard that this trio is actually in the comics but I know nothing of that as I'm not reading it. So I'm guessing they make it as regulars into S5 however we get out TERMINUS situation.

Rick, Carl, Michonne(sp) & Darryl should've hung back for quite some time scouting out TERMINUS. They successfully sneak in but just introduce themselves to the first people they meet? Why sneak in then?

I'm hoping, guessing then, that Tyrese and Carol are the wildcards for getting the group out of the hostage situation they are in. They are the only ones not yet at TERMINUS.

If I had to guess who canon fodder is for S5 my money is on Bob, Sasha, Carol or the last person from the Governors group(forget her name).
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Old April 16 2014, 12:48 AM   #2384
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

At this point, it's probably not safe to assume just because characters are in the comics, that they are safe. The life spans of characters have been changed drastically from the comics.
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Old May 1 2014, 08:32 PM   #2385
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

TWD cast has been assembled in the Atlanta area and Monday May 5, 2014 they will begin filming TWD season 5 episode 1.
Yeah!
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