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Old March 12 2014, 08:22 PM   #1711
DarthTom
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

sojourner wrote: View Post
When were satellites ever mentioned on the show?
Stg. Abraham Ford said he was speaking on a a satellite phone with Washington to get the Dr. there because he had the, "cure."

Which begs the question actually if people in D.C. are still uplinked to a satellite phone why the fuck wouldn't they have sent what remaining air force they had to extract him for such an important task?

Returning to my comments about military - lack there of. Yes it is lazy writing not to at least comment on a military force unseen which is understandable that was way above the production costs budgeted for the series.

PKerr wrote: View Post
We've had this discussion about the fall of the military before and there is no way on God's green Earth to believe that the combined force of the Military, National Guard, The Reserves, The Police, the Fire Departments (FF bunker gear would be perfect in a ZA, as nothing would bite through it), every good ole boy with a shotgun and every punk kid that played Call of Duty would be overrun by these slow moving, dumb (even the ones from season one) Walkers.
It goes without saying that there are many, many plot holes related to the fall of civilization over the course of a couple of weeks or less. However, they could have cleaned it up by at least alluding to a larger military force somewhere which would haven't have cost the series a $1 to make it more believable. e.g. some sort of massive fallback and re-group strategy.

Last edited by DarthTom; March 12 2014 at 08:51 PM.
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Old March 12 2014, 08:55 PM   #1712
Trekker4747
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Stg. Abraham Ford said he was speaking on a a satellite phone with Washington to get the Dr. there because he had the, "cure."

Which begs the question actually if people in D.C. are still uplinked to a satellite phone why the fuck wouldn't they have sent what remaining air force they had to extract him for such an important task?
Actually it was Eugene who said (to Abraham at some point in the past) that the Sat-Phone communicated with Washington and had recently gone dead. All I'll say is.... Let that story flesh out.

In Season 3 when we first meet Woodbury/The Governor we meet a military group. So it's possible there's still more out there and they're trying it's just that they're overwhelmed and there's only "so much" they can do. Heck we see that they napalmed Atlanta and look how that turned out!

For the premise and the show to work you have to accept that humanity was just overwhelmed in a very short time (possibly only a couple weeks) and that's just when things "got bad."
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Old March 12 2014, 09:05 PM   #1713
sojourner
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Yeah, but Trek God 1 intimated that for some reason satellites had just disappeared?

Not sure what would lead one to think that.

Also, up until now, we haven't had a military character on the show really front and center. Abraham may be around long enough for us to get some exposition on how things went militarioy during the fall.
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Old March 12 2014, 09:34 PM   #1714
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

"Normal" wars, soldiers are sent form home(which is "safe") and sent to the war zone.

My theory on this is that the Zombie Apocalypse is instantaneous and worldwide. Anyone in the military is going to be worried about their family, and wiling to go AWOL when they can't communicate with their family.

Also, not knowing the zombie bite problem, "heroes" are going to go hand-to-hand, get bitten, and brush it off -- until they die and turn.

Another thing is that when things start going a little more out of control, they will order outrageous things, like the killing in Rick's hospital. That'll turn military people against each other, and they will shoot each other most likely in the just creating more zombies. And friends of the mortally wounded will either try to comfort their friend or bury them or something, and get bit themselves. Also civilians will also get revenge as well.

All of that can decimate the military. ANd the others might retreat to safe zones, and not reach out to the public (especially if scout teams get ambushed like with the Governor).
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Old March 12 2014, 10:03 PM   #1715
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

sojourner wrote: View Post
Yeah, but Trek God 1 intimated that for some reason satellites had just disappeared?
You are misunderstanding. TWD's utter lack of all forms of satellite-based communication implies the tools required for service are dead, which would also extend to emergency networks. How did that happen in the short time between Rick's gunshot wound? Even Jenner (CDC) is not communicating with anyone, and we cannot assume all organizations and emergency networks were abandoned, so...?

Of course, silencing the world in such a short time lends itself to a bleak situation....no matter how unbelievable that is.
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Old March 12 2014, 10:06 PM   #1716
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Corran Horn wrote: View Post
My assumption has always been that due to the limited scope of area covered by the group we're watching that there were major battles going on offscreen. Still, a totally deserted Atlanta is hard to explain.
Exactly. Where did such a large population go? They did not all "head for the hills," or cross over every available border (since they would know people in other neighboring states would attempt the same thing, creating a near-inescapable gridlock).
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Old March 12 2014, 10:16 PM   #1717
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
In Season 3 when we first meet Woodbury/The Governor we meet a military group. So it's possible there's still more out there and they're trying it's just that they're overwhelmed and there's only "so much" they can do. Heck we see that they napalmed Atlanta and look how that turned out!
Well, that begs the question: what is the effect of napalm on walkers?

For the premise and the show to work you have to accept that humanity was just overwhelmed in a very short time (possibly only a couple weeks) and that's just when things "got bad."
...and that is why some of the audience find it easy to spot problems. At least with the original Night of the Living Dead, the spread of the zombie outbreak was not said to be "everywhere." Reports were vague, and we witnessed the local law enforcement response, but it was not the end of everything.

In TWD, the ZA just drops on society like a ton of bricks, with no realistic idea of how society would respond. It is just ZA happens, mankind falls overnight--strongly implied by the sweep of society in the short time between Rick going into, then leaving the hospital.
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Old March 12 2014, 10:25 PM   #1718
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
You are misunderstanding. TWD's utter lack of all forms of satellite-based communication implies the tools required for service are dead, which would also extend to emergency networks. How did that happen in the short time between Rick's gunshot wound? Even Jenner (CDC) is not communicating with anyone, and we cannot assume all organizations and emergency networks were abandoned, so...?

You have a bad habit of assuming that since it hasn't been directly addressed in the show, that something doesn't work at all.

What access to satellite communications has our little group had? Portable satellite phones aren't exactly common. Even if you had one, who do you call? What phone number do you try? And that's assuming that the other infrastructure between the satellite and the receiving phone is still functional/being manned.

Do you think they should be sitting around watching satellite TV? (as if it would work)

Satellites are great for point to point communication, but in a situation where you don't know who to call? almost useless.

They would be better off scavenging for HAM radio equipment.
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Old March 12 2014, 10:31 PM   #1719
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Dude, learn to multi-quote.

Anyway, there's probably a few ways the population got so decimated so quickly. It probably took a while for people to learn that a bite or scratch from a zombie infects you, causes you to die and reanimate. That happening a couple of times could have taken out a few people before people realized what was going on. And it probably took even more time for people to learn that dying no matter what causes you to reanimate. Something our characters weren't even aware of throughout the whole first two seasons! (Accept for Rick during S2.)

But the "infection spread by bite" is, in fact a very hard way to spread a disease. Sort of how a dog getting rabies doesn't mean 99% of the dogs in the world will have rabies in the next couple days.

And the show-runners have pretty much been on record that we'll never know how the ZA happened. So, again, it's really just something we have to accept as a "somehow." Or there's much more going on elsewhere in the world that we're not yet privy to.

EDIT:

Also satellites depend on ground systems to work. If the power grid is gone then there's no computers or anything on the ground to help satellites work. Hell, I'm fairly sure the satellites require constant "maintenance" from NASA and other agencies on the ground to keep them aligned and operating. They may be largely useless after the 18-months/2-years that have passed.
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Old March 12 2014, 11:37 PM   #1720
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

There's also the possibility that the base virus was also lethal to the vast majority of the population as soon as it went airborn (or however it managed to infect the entire population), and those that survived the original outbreak had an immunity to that particular aspect of it and only turn if they're bitten or otherwise infected with the more active/triggering strain.

Honestly, that seems the most likely reason for how it could have happened.
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Old March 13 2014, 12:22 AM   #1721
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

sojourner wrote: View Post
You have a bad habit of assuming that since it hasn't been directly addressed in the show, that something doesn't work at all.
You have a bad habit of trying to write for the series--filling in for the avoidance of reason.

What access to satellite communications has our little group had?
I'm talking about all characters--even more established groups like that seen at Woodbury, or an indivdual who was not living in primitive shambles such as Jenner at the CDC.

No excuses.

Do you think they should be sitting around watching satellite TV? (as if it would work)
...and exactly how did it all fall apart in mere days? Again, you cannot avoid the strong suggestion that society fell while Rick was in the hospital--and considering the peculiar habits of walkers, he would not have lasted for an extended amount of time.

So, tell us how society (including communications) fell so quickly.
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Old March 13 2014, 12:46 AM   #1722
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
So, tell us how society fell so quickly.
I did, right in the post just above yours.
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Old March 13 2014, 01:57 AM   #1723
sojourner
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
I'm talking about all characters--even more established groups like that seen at Woodbury, or an indivdual who was not living in primitive shambles such as Jenner at the CDC.
Jenner did explain that he lost contact. What other characters did we see that had access to satellite communications and someone to talk to?
Do you think they should be sitting around watching satellite TV? (as if it would work)
...and exactly how did it all fall apart in mere days? Again, you cannot avoid the strong suggestion that society fell while Rick was in the hospital--and considering the peculiar habits of walkers, he would not have lasted for an extended amount of time.

So, tell us how society (including communications) fell so quickly.
Not even sure how this relates to the statement you quoted. What does the speed of how things fell apart have to do with satellite communications in the current conditions of the setting?

As for how long Rick lasted, I suggest you watch this set of webisodes:

http://www.amctv.com/the-walking-dea...he-oath-part-1

particularly the end of part 2:

http://www.amctv.com/the-walking-dea...he-oath-part-2
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Old March 13 2014, 02:49 AM   #1724
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

sojourner wrote: View Post
Jenner did explain that he lost contact.
Referencing Jenner points out that everyone was not straggling in the woods, or running from one place to another--such as Rick's group. Further, what about the Woodburys of the world? If functioning mini-societies exist on that level, who would think any manned source of communication would not exist on some level as well?

Again, convenient writing has the world falling so quickly.

Not even sure how this relates to the statement you quoted. What does the speed of how things fell apart have to do with satellite communications in the current conditions of the setting?
Access. Attempt. Why the characters are behaving as if they think everything has fallen apart, when it is not plausible in so short a period--particularly in the joined season 1 & 2 period.

As for how long Rick lasted, I suggest you watch this set of webisodes:

http://www.amctv.com/the-walking-dea...he-oath-part-1
That webisode is as convoluted as the notion of society falling as fast as suggested in the pilot. Moreover, the mercy-killing-happy woman would have dealt the same murderous action to Rick if she did something as simple as....check the rooms.

She gives no indication of how much time passed, but it would not matter, since Rick--in an exposed environment--would have been killed, either by mercy-killer (again, if she bothered to check the room of her own facility), by walkers, or even the living. He could not have been exposed with no nourishment/care for long. In that time, the would would not fall apart to the degree depicted in the series.

Come on. That webisode is not even close to proving explanations.

...and like Star Wars or Star Trek EU, if you need a webisode to explain what the series should have, then there's a problem...
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Old March 13 2014, 03:08 AM   #1725
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 4

Dude, you're over-thinking it. Yes the premise doesn't make sense and in "reality" society wouldn't collapse in the time that likely took place between Shane visiting Rick in the hospital and when Rick woke up (at most a week) but the idea was also supposed to be this was all going on for quite sometime before it became a huge problem. (re: The times Jenner gives on the sickness being first found and it going global.)

I don't think anyone could argue that it doesn't make sense that society fell apart in a matter of weeks or maybe months. Point is, it did. End of story. "Somehow" it just did. Whatever happened initially was too overwhelming for society to cope with it and fight it off. Maybe the first wave that took everyone out was a much more lethal and faster-acting strain of the illness? Doesn't matter as, really, the zombies and how it all happened really isn't the point of the story.
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