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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

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Old May 6 2013, 03:57 PM   #16
Christopher
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Re: Novels based on the movie cast.

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
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They haven't said "postponed" either.
As I said, the term used by the then-editor was "for now", IIRC, which still sounds more like "on hiatus" or "postponed" than outright "cancelled". I was careful not to say "postponed". The only term used here by an editor was "for now".
Which isn't a promise that they will be published -- just an acknowledgment that things were still somewhat indefinite at the point that press release was issued. But that was four years ago, and the books are still nowhere to be seen, nor has there been any effort to develop any alternative Abramsverse prose tie-ins other than the YA books. I think by this point it's wise to stop holding your breath.


I've told you over and over again that continuity and "story difficulties" are not the issue.
By continuing to state that, you realise you only increase the mystery.
Which is exactly the point: that you don't know enough about the situation to make any assumptions about what the reasons are for the cancellation or what might happen in the future. The wisest and most honest answer to give anyone who asks those questions is "I don't know."


Huh? No, to order four sets of extensive revisions at the point where the novels were being set aside would have been impossible before the second film's script had even been finalized.
Again: That was four years ago. There would've been plenty of time over the past year or two to revise the books, or replace them with new books, and get them on shelves as a tie-in for Into Darkness, just like IDW did with the comics.


For Orci & Kurtzman to provide a list of areas that were off-limits for tie-ins would have breached the secrecy Bad Robot was enjoying spinning about the plot and antagonist of STiD.
Not true. That didn't stop Orci from keeping the IDW comics consistent with the film. And he wouldn't have had to breach confidentiality about the villain just to tell us what subjects to avoid. This is routine for any tie-ins to ongoing series. Marvel and Lucasfilm faced the same issues decades ago with the original Star Wars comics. Lucasfilm told Marvel to avoid telling stories about certain subject areas, like confrontations between Luke and Vader, or advancing the Luke-Leia relationship. They didn't have to breach any confidences, just give broad guidelines about what topics to avoid. These are easy matters to deal with and don't require cancelling tie-in lines.


I thought you were the one who once talked about one thin comic manuscript per month being easier/faster to oversee than four thick novel manuscripts while Orci & Kurtzman were absorbed with the writing of the movie?
I don't remember if I said that, but for one thing, they finished writing the movie well over a year ago. For another thing, the novels weren't that thick, only about 80,000 words apiece. For another thing, they've put out over two dozen Abramsverse comics by this point, which is probably a comparable amount of verbiage to three or four novels. Even if I did say that before, even if it was true at the time I said it, enough time has passed that it no longer applies.


I wasn't assuming inevitability. I thought I carefully worded that I thought that "it's reasonable to expect" that four bought and paid for novels will eventually get published once the trilogy has been completed.
Which is still wrong. It is not reasonable to expect that at all, for the reasons I've explained. It would be far safer to expect that they won't be published. I'd like it if they were someday, but I'm not holding my breath, and neither should you.


I doubt the accountants are losing sleep over a loss sustained four years ago on a measly four mass-market paperbacks.
Well, if the pay is only "measly", then I guess you're right. Maybe those accountants got fired when they let Marco and Margaret go?
It's a matter of proportion. We're talking about a huge publishing company that puts out hundreds of books a year. The entire Star Trek line is just a minor fraction of Simon & Schuster's total business. All businesses sustain losses in various ways. But they're often willing to eat those losses so long as they make enough total profit to offset them.


You hear that, Lt. Cheka Wey?: I was wrong and the novels might never come out after all!
I wish you wouldn't take this so personally. Pointing out the facts is not a personal attack, just an attempt to clarify things. There's no shame in being wrong -- only in being too stubborn to admit and correct it.


Allyn Gibson wrote: View Post
Reading between the lines of what Christopher's saying here, it sounds like the issue is really with Bad Robot.
I'm not saying that. I have no idea whether that's the case, and I'm not trying to blame anyone.


Now, it's possible that I'm misreading what Christopher is trying to say without saying directly, in which case none of these will apply.
I honestly don't know enough to say anything for sure about the real reasons for the cancellation. Mainly what I'm saying is that it's best not to speculate, because whatever guesses you make are likely to be wrong. And I'm saying, specifically, that it's not true that the books have only been postponed for continuity reasons; if that were the only problem, it could easily have been overcome by now. And I'm saying, don't hold your breath. It's not impossible that the books could be resurrected someday, but for now it's safer to assume they won't.
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Last edited by Christopher; May 6 2013 at 04:14 PM.
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Old May 6 2013, 04:12 PM   #17
Therin of Andor
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Re: Novels based on the movie cast.

Christopher wrote: View Post
Pointing out the facts is not a personal attack, just an attempt to clarify things.
There are ways and there are ways.

Pointing out that I am wrong in my speculations when the true answer remains unclear is unconvincing.

If Pocket was asked to wait for the trilogy to be completed, or decided to wait of its own volition, the fact that the four novels were set aside four years ago means nothing; there's still at least one movie to go. I wouldn't expect to see movie-based sequel novels for several more years.
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Old May 6 2013, 04:23 PM   #18
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Re: Novels based on the movie cast.

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
If Pocket was asked to wait for the trilogy to be completed, or decided to wait of its own volition, the fact that the four novels were set aside four years ago means nothing; there's still at least one movie to go. I wouldn't expect to see movie-based sequel novels for several more years.
It would be nice if that were the case, but I have no reason to believe that it's anything more than wishful thinking. I mean, why would this apply to novels and not comics? Or if they didn't want sequels, why not just hire us to write prequels?

Look, I should really drop this -- it's best if I don't get dragged into the speculation game myself. All I'm trying to do is caution you not to get your hopes up.
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Old May 7 2013, 02:51 AM   #19
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Re: Novels based on the movie cast.

^That's been thing the strangest thing about this to me, the fact that they've released almost every other type of storytelling tie-in other than the adult novels. I think it would be a lot less confusing if they weren't releasing any kind of story based tie-ins, or at least no books through S&S.
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Old May 9 2013, 02:51 PM   #20
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Re: Novels based on the movie cast.

Of the plot summaries, the Cox one sounds very interesting. Of course, I only say that because I had contemplated what would become of "Spock-prime" in this universe he never made. If there are any inter-dimensional travelers on the boards pick me up a copy next time you make it to a reality where these were actually published.
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Old May 9 2013, 06:01 PM   #21
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Re: Novels based on the movie cast.

Recall, though, that The Assassination Game was pushed back by almost a year from its original publication date. (June 2012 actual vs. September 2011 original) And according to the interview the author did on the Trek collective, Bad Robot really pored over the book. It seems things like races or ships that may have been background "characters" were asked to be removed or replaced, possibly for relationship to plot elements or just because they didn't want them there.

So it's certainly possible for Bad Robot to have a direct hand in a tie-in (something written about 2010) to the point of delaying it quite a bit with that item still coming out.

(Speaking of which, I really wish someone in TrekLit would get Mr. Gratz to do an "adult" Trek novel.)
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Old May 9 2013, 10:44 PM   #22
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Re: Novels based on the movie cast.

BritishSeaPower wrote: View Post
(Speaking of which, I really wish someone in TrekLit would get Mr. Gratz to do an "adult" Trek novel.)
I concur.
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Old May 9 2013, 11:13 PM   #23
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Re: Novels based on the movie cast.

BritishSeaPower wrote: View Post
So it's certainly possible for Bad Robot to have a direct hand in a tie-in (something written about 2010) to the point of delaying it quite a bit with that item still coming out.
Delayed by months or a year, sure. But that YA novel did nonetheless come out, and that was a year ago.
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Old May 10 2013, 02:06 AM   #24
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Re: Novels based on the movie cast.

I hope these novels, or others, are finally released now that STiD is out! A few novels would be nice to at least tie us over until ST3 . I know there are comic books, but to be honest, I didn't really grow up reading comics, and I'm not really an enthusiast for them. Plus novels have better potential for a deeper and more interesting story, since they are not as limited in page and word length as a comic book. I also don't really care to read 'young adult' books either.
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Old May 10 2013, 03:20 AM   #25
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Re: Novels based on the movie cast.

Chrono85 wrote: View Post
I hope these novels, or others, are finally released now that STiD is out! A few novels would be nice to at least tie us over until ST3 . I know there are comic books, but to be honest, I didn't really grow up reading comics, and I'm not really an enthusiast for them. Plus novels have better potential for a deeper and more interesting story, since they are not as limited in page and word length as a comic book. I also don't really care to read 'young adult' books either.
Honestly, it's probably better off that we don't have Abramsverse novels. We'd get less Prime Trek novels a year, and an Abramsverse series would be the "put you toys away at the end" tupe stories that a lot of people around here claim they are sick of with all the TOS novels. I still think the way the four Abramsverse novels were pulled was very sloppy and poorly handled, but in the end we're better off without an Abramsverse series, IMO.
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Old May 10 2013, 09:32 AM   #26
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Re: Novels based on the movie cast.

The article explaining the books being set aside is here:
http://trekmovie.com/2010/01/14/pock...m-summer-2010/

including:

Anthony Pascale reported:

Apparently the four novels have mostly been written, but the decision does not appear to have anything to do with the books specifically, but the view that (for now) the team behind the movie should be the ones telling new stories for this new crew, especially stories set after the movie. That does not mean that stories cannot be told in the new movie universe. Comic Book publisher IDW has already released the "Star Trek Nero" comic series, which was primarily a new story set in the new movie universe, but it took place during the film (in the years between Nero’s arrival and when he captured Spock Prime). IDW are also kicking off a six-issue Star Trek movie adaptation next month. And of course last year IDW had a big success with "Star Trek Countdown". A big difference between the IDW Star Trek tie-ins and the planned Pocket Books novels is that IDW has been working closely with the Star Trek writing team of Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman. The writing team did work with Pocket and author Alan Dean Foster on the 2009 Star Trek movie adaptation, which became a New York Times bestseller, the first for Star Trek in a long time.
A spokesperson for Simon & Schuster’s Pocket Books provided TrekMovie with the following statement explaining why the books were pulled:
With last summer’s blockbuster STAR TREK movie, JJ Abrams created a new vibrant, layered version of the Star Trek universe. After careful consideration, we decided to hold off on telling new stories while JJ and his team continue to develop his vision.
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Old May 16 2013, 10:06 PM   #27
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Re: Novels based on the movie cast.

While this article doesn't cover the novels specifically, The Wrap delves into the complicated relationship between CBS Consumer Products and Bad Robot over merchandise and other tie-ins.

Much to the dismay of Bad Robot, CBS' merchandising arm continued to create memorabilia and products based on the cast of the original 1960s series and market them to Trekkies. The production company did market research and found that there was brand confusion between Abrams' rebooted Enterprise crew and the one starring William Shatner and DeForest Kelley.
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Old May 17 2013, 03:34 AM   #28
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Re: Novels based on the movie cast.

^ I'm actually shocked that Bad Robot would have even expected them to stop making products based on the original series.

Although it's too bad we didn't get the (apparently) planned TV show.
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Old May 17 2013, 03:45 AM   #29
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Re: Novels based on the movie cast.

Avro Arrow wrote: View Post
^ I'm actually shocked that Bad Robot would have even expected them to stop making products based on the original series.
I'm not. It fits the arrogant image I apply to Abrams and his cohorts.

Although it's too bad we didn't get the (apparently) planned TV show.
Which I suspect would be the animated series that Orci often claims is "in talks."
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Old May 17 2013, 04:00 AM   #30
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Re: Novels based on the movie cast.

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
Avro Arrow wrote: View Post
^ I'm actually shocked that Bad Robot would have even expected them to stop making products based on the original series.
I'm not. It fits the arrogant image I apply to Abrams and his cohorts.
Well, to be fair, this is the first time that Bad Robot has been involved with a franchise that had an earlier incarnation that was still a going concern in tie-ins. The only previous thing they've done that they didn't create themselves was Mission: Impossible, and that didn't have anything coming out besides the movies. So maybe instead of arrogance it was just not being used to having the "competition."
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