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General Trek Discussion Trek TV and cinema subjects not related to any specific series or movie.

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Old May 6 2013, 06:23 AM   #61
Sci
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Re: Is Star Trek (the original series) aging really badly?

I think aspects of TOS haven't aged well. Beyond the obvious question of visual effects, and the slightly less obvious question of what kinds of pacing and episode lengths are now standard, I think it's safe to say that TOS's depiction of gender roles is very outdated. The role of women in Starfleet and in society, and the constant "male gaze" and male-dominated POV is very much a function of the 1960s and their attitudes towards gender roles.

TOS's depiction of race relations isn't as bad, but still isn't quite up to modern standards. The society TOS depicts is clearly one in which racism and oppression are supposed to have been vanquished and equality established -- and we do see authority figures and very accomplished people who are persons of color -- but the narrative itself is still crafted around white people, and the society it depicts is still one where whites seem to outnumber non-whites (even if you're alien). So the narrative is unintentionally ethnocentric -- not an unforgivable sin, mind you; its heart is in the right place. But it's also still a creature of its time.
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Old May 6 2013, 07:22 AM   #62
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Re: Is Star Trek (the original series) aging really badly?

One thing people fail to remember is when Star Trek appeared in the mid-60s, most ethnic actors were stuck playing maids, porters, bellhops, janitors, cooks, or hoodlums and lowlifes. It was rare to see a black man as a doctor, lawyer, or other professional. And there were fewer ethnic actors available for casting.
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Old May 6 2013, 07:23 AM   #63
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Re: Is Star Trek (the original series) aging really badly?

I've been watching it with my girlfriend, who had never seen it before. The two most glaring ways it has aged poorly are in the depiction of women (not just in dialogue, but also music; see A Piece of the Action for one example) and the style of acting (leaning very much toward ham, particularly from the guests)
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Old May 6 2013, 02:32 PM   #64
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Re: Is Star Trek (the original series) aging really badly?

J.T.B. wrote: View Post
Samuel Walters wrote: View Post
As to the specific criticism of TOS pacing, there's one tangible reason why modern audiences may pick up on it: Because there was less commercial time during the airing of TOS, the individual episodes are longer. Five minutes or so may not seem like much, but modern audiences are conditioned for shorter run times.
Good point. On Mad Men a couple of weeks ago there was a line about six minutes of commercials per hour. Wow. Now it's like eight minutes per half hour. You can get a lot into a couple of extra minutes. Maybe why TOS has more play-like, dialogue-heavy scenes. Which I like, but is obviously not for everyone.
Interestingly, Fox actually tried going back to 51 minute blocks + 9 minute commercials for a couple shows a few years ago. Joss Whedon ended up complaining about it saying that he felt like he was unnecessarily extending episodes of Dollhouse for no good reason.
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Old May 9 2013, 08:28 PM   #65
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Re: Is Star Trek (the original series) aging really badly?

It has indeed aged... you can't fairly compare it to the other Star Trek series that followed because it was filmed under an entirely different set of circumstances (timing, age of TV series--this began when color was still fairly new, and resources). I just consider it an antique, and a much beloved one at that. It has aged and will continue to do so, but that's part of the charm at this point.
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Old May 14 2013, 06:12 PM   #66
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Re: Is Star Trek (the original series) aging really badly?

Jefferies wrote: View Post
Do we really only think Star Trek is worthwhile because we have a memory of it being good in the past?
Sigh. Assumptions really are the mother of all f*ck-ups. God I hate these stupid questions. Not all of us first watched TOS when it came out, or later at a very young age. I was 21 when I first started watching TOS and I fucking loved it then just as I do now, seven years later.

No offence.
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Old May 14 2013, 09:56 PM   #67
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Re: Is Star Trek (the original series) aging really badly?

King Daniel wrote: View Post
IMO it's The Next Generation that's aged the worst - I couldn't make it through my last attempt at a rewatch.
That's been my experience as well, I watched TNG regularly when it was originally broadcast and enjoyed it for the most part, but when I've attempted to rewatch it in recent years I've had trouble getting through 20 minutes of an episode...
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Old May 14 2013, 10:01 PM   #68
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Re: Is Star Trek (the original series) aging really badly?

And I just watched "This side of Paradise" this past weekend and found it - just a fun as it always was. Kirk nearly getting his head beat in by Spock was worth the whole hour...
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Old May 15 2013, 05:09 AM   #69
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Re: Is Star Trek (the original series) aging really badly?

The original Star Trek is a show I've always liked, and if anything it's grown in my estimation over the years. I was born in 1987 and didn't see any Star Trek at all until the second decade of my life, so nostalgia doesn't enter into it. TOS wasn't even the first Trek I saw - that was Voyager, a show I now easily rate as my least favorite in the franchise.

Though the original is clearly a product of its time (and how could it not be?) I don't think age has done anything to diminish what makes it entertaining - the most downright entertaining of all the shows, in my opinion.
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Old May 15 2013, 05:15 AM   #70
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Re: Is Star Trek (the original series) aging really badly?

I only want to chime in with (since my initial instinct was to say, "What??? I will Keel you where you stand!!") :I agree with the third season seeming to be a chore.

The production values are so dismal, Scott's bad haircut, the cheap looking unis. Ugh. There are genuinely good episodes, but I could watch almost any ep of season 1 and 2 at the drop of a hat, but really struggle to find one on a list of Season 3 episodes that make me go "hey!"
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Old May 15 2013, 04:25 PM   #71
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Re: Is Star Trek (the original series) aging really badly?

J.T.B. wrote: View Post
Star Trek is a product of its time and IMO holds its own compared to other late '60s shows. The older it gets the less it will appeal to a broad audience, just like any other show. Some people will still appreciate it, either for historical value or because they like its "vintage" aesthetic or production values. But they will be a small, specialized niche audience.
I agree with this. Having just recorded 36 episodes of a podcast whose purpose is to discuss TOS with a non-Trekkie, I can tell you that even for people that like science fiction, TOS is a hard sell.
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Old May 16 2013, 07:29 PM   #72
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Re: Is Star Trek (the original series) aging really badly?

The original series hasn't aged at all. We have.
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Old May 16 2013, 07:41 PM   #73
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Re: Is Star Trek (the original series) aging really badly?

Dale Sams wrote: View Post
I only want to chime in with (since my initial instinct was to say, "What??? I will Keel you where you stand!!") :I agree with the third season seeming to be a chore.

The production values are so dismal, Scott's bad haircut, the cheap looking unis. Ugh. There are genuinely good episodes, but I could watch almost any ep of season 1 and 2 at the drop of a hat, but really struggle to find one on a list of Season 3 episodes that make me go "hey!"
"The Enterprise Incident"?
"The Tholian Web"?
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Old May 16 2013, 07:50 PM   #74
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Re: Is Star Trek (the original series) aging really badly?

It doesn't help that season three had a budget cut resulting in every second episode being a bottle show. Even Bob Justman infamously said they were basically just making radio shows in that third season. Nobody ever seemed to leave the ship (or ended up walking around identical replicas of it).
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Old May 16 2013, 07:59 PM   #75
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Re: Is Star Trek (the original series) aging really badly?

Re: Is Star Trek (the original series) aging really badly?

Nope. It's exactly as I remember it ... except for the remaster, which I don't like at all.

I prefer the original FX that I grew up with. Flawed as they are, they still look real to me. It was state of the art for the time, and what I still see in my head.
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