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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old May 3 2013, 12:39 AM   #16
Christopher
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Re: The Bonding with 6 min of extra footage

jimbotron wrote: View Post
I guess the idea of escaping to the holodeck remained in the minds of the writers and adapted it for Barclay in Hollow Pursuits.
Except that "Hollow Pursuits" wasn't conceived by the writing staff. It started out as a spec script by freelancer Sarah Higley (under the pseudonym "Sally Caves"), and she started writing it in fall 1988, which as far as I can tell is before Moore wrote "The Bonding" (also as a freelance spec script).
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Old May 3 2013, 12:54 AM   #17
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Re: The Bonding with 6 min of extra footage

Christopher wrote: View Post
Except that "Hollow Pursuits" wasn't conceived by the writing staff. It started out as a spec script by freelancer Sarah Higley (under the pseudonym "Sally Caves"), and she started writing it in fall 1988, which as far as I can tell is before Moore wrote "The Bonding" (also as a freelance spec script).
Ah ok, you learn something new everyday.
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Old May 3 2013, 01:37 AM   #18
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Re: The Bonding with 6 min of extra footage

jimbotron wrote: View Post
I'm very thankful for Roddenberry's creation, but there are times he really to let the writers tell their stories.

The story got hamstrung because he declared that children in the future would accept death easily and then move on. Piller and Moore obviously didn't like that idea because it makes these characters difficult to understand and accept. Moore elaborates in the commentary that the alien angle was added to bring the mother back instead of Jeremy using into the holodeck to escape from the reality.

I guess the idea of escaping to the holodeck remained in the minds of the writers and adapted it for Barclay in Hollow Pursuits. If damaging the story of this episode gave us Lt. Barclay, then I'd say it was a good deal.

In the commentary, I think Moore said he was happy with the kid, but I think he was just being nice.
I think the kid using the Holodeck as a way to keep from facing that his mother was killed works better than the alien angle.
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Old May 3 2013, 09:48 AM   #19
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Re: The Bonding with 6 min of extra footage



Jeremy Aster was such a flat character but it incredible to see that they put some effort into establishing him as a normal kids having a regular day at school when this tragedy occurs.

The science classroom scene... what an excellent looking set! So unbelievably 80s... and the ponytail/Jem and the Holograms style pyjamas student was the perfect touch. Even a teacher with a few lines of dialogue.

Was that a standard "classroom" set decorated with potted plants or a unique set to this episode? I wish the quality were better but it's incredible that these archives exist.

Screaming yellow walls with those shelves (are they designed to accelerate the growth of plants for study?) - it looks so bizarre as if schools in the future would be colored like a candy shop! It's prophetic too, most classrooms now have terminals for kids to use.

I like Jeremy more that he was a bit racist toward Troi about her Betazoid heritage - only because it gave him more depth than the final cut provided. He was unbearably boring if I recall... and that creepy hairstyle didn't help. Overall I've never before enjoyed The Bonding, despite the great scenes with Worf. The alien story didn't go places for me.Here's a freaky-deaky comparison on that theme - a quote from Wikipedia on Peter Weller's experience working on Robocop 2:
"This was the last time Weller played the role. He complained about how cumbersome and exhausting it was to wear the suit and found RoboCop 2 to be a very negative and disappointing film to work on. He was also upset that some important scenes did not make it into the final cut: "There was a couple of things that made the character more human that weren't used. I can't remember exactly what the scenes were, I just remember wondering why they weren't in." These deleted scenes have never been included on home video releases."
Props to TrekCore. Overall that was incredibly enjoyable and look forward to rewatching The Bonding.
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Old May 3 2013, 10:03 AM   #20
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Re: The Bonding with 6 min of extra footage

billcosby wrote: View Post
I like Jeremy more that he was a bit racist toward Troi about her Betazoid heritage - only because it gave him more depth than the final cut provided.
How is pointing out facts "a bit racist"? She is betazoid, she does know how she's feeling so her question seemed to be pointless. To him it probably made as much sense as being asked what color his clothes were "You can see them, why do i have to tell you?!".
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Old May 3 2013, 10:14 AM   #21
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Re: The Bonding with 6 min of extra footage

Takeru wrote: View Post
billcosby wrote: View Post
I like Jeremy more that he was a bit racist toward Troi about her Betazoid heritage - only because it gave him more depth than the final cut provided.
How is pointing out facts "a bit racist"? She is betazoid, she does know how she's feeling so her question seemed to be pointless. To him it probably made as much sense as being asked what color his clothes were "You can see them, why do i have to tell you?!".
It's in the line delivery. Something about it just makes it sound off and more like he's making it more an insult/racist remark than just being snappy. To be fair, one of the reasons I don't rewatch this episode often is 1) I just can't stand the kid's acting; I can't feel sorry for him, he just comes off as a little asshole 2) They should have used Troi more (hell this would have been in her job describtion) and dialed back on the Worf plot point if not cut it entirely.
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Old May 3 2013, 11:18 AM   #22
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Re: The Bonding with 6 min of extra footage

billcosby wrote: View Post
Best part of the film.
. . .Jeremy Aster. . .that creepy hairstyle didn't help. . .
That hairstyle may have subconsciously bothered me too. It was fairly common in the 60s (Brylcreem, a little dab'll do ya), and I used to wear mine that way. In high school, 20 years before the episode. Thankfully, the "dry look" became more popular with longer hair and hair sprays for men. These days, I just let it air dry and brush.
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Old May 3 2013, 01:58 PM   #23
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Re: The Bonding with 6 min of extra footage

So Roddenberry said Children don't grieve and death is accepted as a normal part of life... Ok, there's just one problem with that.

EVERYONE ELSE in this episode spends most of the time grieving! Worf grieves, Riker grieves, Wesley grieves, even Picard grieves a bit in front of Jeremy. Heck, near the end Picard has this to say.

Picard: Jeremy must come to terms with his grief.
It's like a life guard telling people that there's no diving in the pool, but seconds later allows everyone to dive.
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Old May 3 2013, 02:05 PM   #24
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Re: The Bonding with 6 min of extra footage

I didn't see any racism in Jeremy's attitude. It was more just defensiveness. He didn't want to talk about his feelings, so he hid behind a dismissive reaction to her question about them, pointing out that she shouldn't need to ask since she can already tell the answer.

Billcosby, the classroom set was probably a redress of one of the standing sets, either the crew-quarters set or maybe the medical lab.
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Old May 4 2013, 02:01 AM   #25
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Re: The Bonding with 6 min of extra footage

It's incredible. I wonder how many other areas of the Enterprise D were subject to oblivion on the cutting room floor.

Has anyone else noticed that Troi often has to explain her mixed heritage to people that assume she's a full empath... meaning she isn't able to read thoughts? This is where I was forming a conception of it being a racist statement - although perhaps it's more accurate to say prejudiced than racist.

When Jeremy says, "you're a Betazoid, don't you know what I'm thinking" or something to that effect, he is assuming that she is a full empath. Ultimately, we all know it is his likely his anger at losing his mother which is surfacing... he doesn't actually have any serious resentment towards Troi for being Betazoid and probably doesn't want to endure the line of questioning.

However, is it true that some Betazoids don't have the ability to sense emotions at all? I think Tam Elbrum mentions that in Tin Man. Again, a source of prejudice to assume all Betazoids are fully empathic.

I was trying to imagine how the episode would have played out as a holodeck escape as SeerSGB suggested... I think it would have made a lot more sense as it would be a likely reaction to someone losing a loved one in TNG's universe. I can imagine being tempted to do so if I lost a loved one... maybe even simply for closure.
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Old May 4 2013, 02:51 AM   #26
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Re: The Bonding with 6 min of extra footage

billcosby wrote: View Post
When Jeremy says, "you're a Betazoid, don't you know what I'm thinking" or something to that effect, he is assuming that she is a full empath.
He says she knows what he's feeling, which was the question she asked. And that is well within her range of abilities. As the scene itself made clear, she didn't ask about his feelings because she couldn't sense them; she asked because she wanted him to talk about them, to face them and work through them as part of his therapy.


However, is it true that some Betazoids don't have the ability to sense emotions at all? I think Tam Elbrum mentions that in Tin Man. Again, a source of prejudice to assume all Betazoids are fully empathic.
Most Betazoids are full telepaths, able to sense others' thoughts as well as emotions, though some are more sensitive than others. Since Deanna is half-Betazoid, she is merely an empath, i.e. able to sense emotion but not thought -- although she is able to communicate telepathically with people she's particularly close to, such as her mother and Riker.

There are probably other Betazoids who have even weaker telepathy or none at all, just like there are humans who lack sight or hearing or the ability to recognize faces. But Deanna wasn't some random Betazoid that Jeremy knew nothing about. As a member of the Enterprise's complement, Jeremy presumably knew who the ship's senior officers were and what they were capable of. He wasn't making a guess about her species; he knew what abilities she personally had. But again, it's beside the point because she wasn't asking for her benefit, but for his.
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