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Old January 12 2014, 03:25 AM   #196
Trekker4747
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Re: MYTHBUSTERS 10th Anniversary Season

I've a question going back to last week with the tauntaun/Hoth "myth." One thing I got to wondering is even putting Luke in the tauntaun was even needed? Would he have survived on his own laying in the snow/out in the open for the time it took Han to build the shelter? In the test itself it seems the tauntaun didn't loose much heat itself (and remember it wasn't plumbed into the heart machine so not generating heat anymore.)

Also, having watched Empire this week, going back to the discussion above it did seem that Han was more heavily dressed than Luke, probably because he was going out closer to sun down during harsher weather. Also after he puts Luke in tautaun he seems to start putting up stakes which would seem to lean more towards him not building a snow-cave but having a physical shelter with him.

Haven't watched tonight's episode yet but I agree with Christopher the "cross overs"/tie-ins with other Discovery properties isn't as interesting as the ones they do with other fictional series. (Like Walking Dead.) Still, I enjoy watching these guys do their thing, so whatevs.

I never understood the concept behind the show and asked myself the same questions when I first saw as Christopher did above. I was preparing for a sleep study and was there as the tech was putting the electrodes on my head and the show was on the room TV. (I watched an episode of MB that was ending and this was the next show to start.) The tech even asked me, "I don't get it. How are they filming this? Isn't what they're doing illegal?" I responded that I had no idea, I'd never seen the show before. *Still* have never really watched one as the concept didn't interest me.

During the preview montage last week when we saw the "moonshine" clip I guess the nerd in me was hoping for another Dukes of Hazzard "myth"/test.

I agree, it's not a show they should be cross-promoting considering what the show is about and that it's a total fabrication but it could be Mythbusters have to do it per their contract with Discovery.
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Old January 12 2014, 04:09 AM   #197
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Re: MYTHBUSTERS 10th Anniversary Season

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
I've a question going back to last week with the tauntaun/Hoth "myth." One thing I got to wondering is even putting Luke in the tauntaun was even needed? Would he have survived on his own laying in the snow/out in the open for the time it took Han to build the shelter? In the test itself it seems the tauntaun didn't loose much heat itself (and remember it wasn't plumbed into the heart machine so not generating heat anymore.)

Also, having watched Empire this week, going back to the discussion above it did seem that Han was more heavily dressed than Luke, probably because he was going out closer to sun down during harsher weather. Also after he puts Luke in tautaun he seems to start putting up stakes which would seem to lean more towards him not building a snow-cave but having a physical shelter with him.
Luke was injured, probably in shock and suffering from hyperthermia so the sooner you start getting a person in that condition warm the better.

Even if it only took Han 5 minutes to put the tent up, that's 5 minutes spent starting to bring Luke's body temperature up.

I'm not sure how you equate putting stakes in the ground with building a snow cave (which frankly would be a stupid idea given how critical warmth would be to Luke survival).

The usual idea when putting up a tent or similar structure is use pegs or stakes to a) given it structure & support and b) anchor in to place. In this case it was blowing with strong winds and Han would have looked a right mug if he put up the survival tent only to have it blow away.

Haven't watched tonight's episode yet but I agree with Christopher the "cross overs"/tie-ins with other Discovery properties isn't as interesting as the ones they do with other fictional series. (Like Walking Dead.) Still, I enjoy watching these guys do their thing, so whatevs.
I'm sure if there was a way to defray the costs of producing Mythbusters without resorting to the cross overs, they could be eliminated.
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Old January 12 2014, 04:13 AM   #198
Trekker4747
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Re: MYTHBUSTERS 10th Anniversary Season

I'm not sure how you equate putting stakes in the ground with building a snow cave (which frankly would be a stupid idea given how critical warmth would be to Luke survival).
Re-read what I said. Han's putting up stakes suggests him NOT building a snow-cave, as suggested by the Mythbusters during their test. And while in the "tauntaun" Luke continued to lose body heat, not gain it. My question is one of whether it was necessary, if putting Luke in tauntaun even helped. I guess a "control" is what I'm talking about.

Snow caves, also, are pretty critical to build in dire situations as they can provide "warmth" (or at least trap warmth radiating from your body while inside it.) It's a survival technique people do use in extreme circumstances.
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Old January 12 2014, 04:20 AM   #199
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Re: MYTHBUSTERS 10th Anniversary Season

I don't know what I found more annoying - another episode that was no more than a promo for another show, the constant "tweets" printed out in the corner that often covered something I needed to see, or the giant animated color ads for "Klondike" that filled 1/4 of the screen and covered Kari's face once!
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Old January 12 2014, 04:27 AM   #200
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Re: MYTHBUSTERS 10th Anniversary Season

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
I've a question going back to last week with the tauntaun/Hoth "myth." One thing I got to wondering is even putting Luke in the tauntaun was even needed? Would he have survived on his own laying in the snow/out in the open for the time it took Han to build the shelter? In the test itself it seems the tauntaun didn't loose much heat itself (and remember it wasn't plumbed into the heart machine so not generating heat anymore.)
First off, again, Luke had already been out in the cold for some time and was already suffering from hypothermia. (Marc, hyperthermia means excessively high body temperature. The Ancient Greeks played a nasty practical joke on us by using almost identical prefixes for "above" (hyper-) and "below" (hypo-), so it's important to keep careful track of the distinction, just to spite those lousy Ancient Greeks.) The tauntaun's body was several degrees warmer than Luke to start with, since it was killed mere moments before Luke was placed into it. That's important because Luke was already too cold, so bringing him into contact with the Tauntaun's warmer body would've helped warm him back up somewhat, which in and of itself would've given him more time to survive than if he'd just been left there.

Second, the tauntaun was considerably larger and more massive than Luke, and thus it would have lost heat more slowly than Luke would even if all else were equal. Third, as stated in the episode, it was adapted for Arctic conditions and its anatomy was designed for heat retention, with a thick layer of blubber and a thick fur coat. Granted, Luke's Arctic gear probably insulated him a fair amount too, but the gear plus the blubber and fur would certainly have provided better insulation than the gear alone.


During the preview montage last week when we saw the "moonshine" clip I guess the nerd in me was hoping for another Dukes of Hazzard "myth"/test.
Yeah. If you're going to make a fictional show about backwoods moonshiners running from the law, then a) admit that it's fictional, b) have Waylon Jennings narrate it, and c) put Catherine Bach in it.


I agree, it's not a show they should be cross-promoting considering what the show is about and that it's a total fabrication but it could be Mythbusters have to do it per their contract with Discovery.
All the more reason they should find another network/production partner. They no longer fit in on Discovery.

Oh, and I agree with Forbin -- the "tweets" were distracting and almost entirely pointless.
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Old January 12 2014, 04:58 AM   #201
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Re: MYTHBUSTERS 10th Anniversary Season

I actually like the "tweets" during the show.

I do think they take up a bit much space and would be better in a ticker or smaller bar on the bottom of the screen. And not also be coupled with the promo ads in the other corner of the screen which is just dumb because, as said, it covered up the faces at certain times which is just terrible presentation code to go by.

Yeah. If you're going to make a fictional show about backwoods moonshiners running from the law, then a) admit that it's fictional, b) have Waylon Jennings narrate it, and c) put Catherine Bach in it.


I just got done watching it, not much to really say or add. I don't think either series of results surprised me. If I'm not too much mistaken the moonshine-as-fuel idea shouldn't have been too surprising considering that's essentially what e85 fuel is, granted at a much different mixture, which also shouldn't make it's much lower efficiency surprising. Running on pure hooch, though, I was a bit surprised how well the modern car ran on it (did Kari say it was or was not a flex-fuel car?) verses the older carburetted engine. I'd think the modern fuel-injected and computerized engine would be more picky. Though if it was flex-fuel car it may have already been build to run off ethanol fuel. Would've been interesting to see if it would have worked as well in a regular gasoline engined modern car, though I suppose it wouldn't be much different than how the middle-aged fuel-injected car behaved.

Nothing to say on the Jamie/Adam myth. They showed that explosive substances explode under the right conditions.

At least we can say this about this "crossover" episode, it wasn't weighted down with guest-stars from the other series.

Kari did wear her cop uniform well. But I still prefer he in the R2D2 dress from last week.
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Old January 12 2014, 05:14 AM   #202
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Re: MYTHBUSTERS 10th Anniversary Season

Christopher wrote: View Post
(Marc, hyperthermia means excessively high body temperature. The Ancient Greeks played a nasty practical joke on us by using almost identical prefixes for "above" (hyper-) and "below" (hypo-), so it's important to keep careful track of the distinction, just to spite those lousy Ancient Greeks.) .
DoH - usually know that (my mum who's a nurse corrected me on it enough over the years
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Old January 12 2014, 05:20 AM   #203
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Re: MYTHBUSTERS 10th Anniversary Season

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
I just got done watching it, not much to really say or add. I don't think either series of results surprised me. If I'm not too much mistaken the moonshine-as-fuel idea shouldn't have been too surprising considering that's essentially what e85 fuel is, granted at a much different mixture, which also shouldn't make it's much lower efficiency surprising.
Well, I've never heard of e85 fuel, so I wouldn't have guessed that. But I know some gasoline has ethanol in it, and I know it's a combustible substance, so it's not a huge surprise.


Running on pure hooch, though, I was a bit surprised how well the modern car ran on it (did Kari say it was or was not a flex-fuel car?) verses the older carburetted engine.
She said it was not specifically flex-fuel, but hedged by saying that maybe its computer would be able to adapt. Seems like something they should've made more of an effort to find out.
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Old January 12 2014, 06:10 AM   #204
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Re: MYTHBUSTERS 10th Anniversary Season

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By that I mean if you watch the original footage, you see Hamill grab Fisher under his right arm with her head about level with his shoulder. Then they cut to the wide-shot of the actual stunt and "Leia" (I'm assuming they're both stunt doubles) is suddenly sort of lying across "Luke's" abdomen with her head under his left armpit and her legs dangling back before she swings them forward, wrapped around his hip so that she's practically horizontal when they get to the other side.
I've been lurking this thread so far, but this bothered me, because it didn't jibe with what I remembered. So, I decided to do a little digging on the web.

The story on the web today is that Hamill and Fisher did the stunt themselves, and that they did it in a single take. This is the most authoritative evidence that I was able to find in my alloted time-frame, though there's probably more authoritative evidence out there somewhere:
Interview with Peter Diamond
By T-bone
Published: December 11, 2000

[...]

On your website it says that you 'used a torn pair of trousers to convince Mark Hamill and Carrie Fisher to swing across the Death Star chasm in Star Wars.' What's the story there?
Just prior to filming this swing another stunt artist and myself had to demonstrate that it was safe to use and rigged correctly. On the demonstration my harness tore. All concerned heard this and both Mark and Carrie were thinking it was unsafe and refused to undertake the swing. From my position above them I said, 'What's the problem?' and I showed them a split in my trousers which had happened previously whilst rehearsing the lightsaber fight. I said, 'Oh, that was my trousers tearing,' and showed them the tear. They believed my lie and we got the swing in one take.
(It's unclear to me what website they're actually referring to. Google doesn't locate the quoted text in the question anywhere else on the web today.)

So, they did it themselves, case closed?

Well, not for me, unfortunately, because I remember watching a documentary back in the day, in which Carrie Fisher said that she'd planned to do the stunt herself until chickening out, and a stunt-woman was brought in at the last second to do it with Mark Hamill. Now, I haven't been able to substantiate that, so it's just as good as in the rumor pile, alright? Still, I'd swear that I remember that. Plus, even if she did say it in an interview once, I suppose it's not out of the question that she was just being dodgy about having actually done it, for whatever reason.

I tried to find a clip of it on the youtubes to illustrate, but came up empty. I imagine Lucasfilm & Disney are quite prompt with the C&Ds and copyright takedowns. :/
I hope that the documentary I'm thinking of hasn't been buried!

Forbin wrote: View Post
Tread drift!!
("Stay on TARget!")

I did a thread-bomb based on that idea almost a couple years back:





Now back to the regularly scheduled discussion....
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Old January 12 2014, 12:27 PM   #205
Trekker4747
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Re: MYTHBUSTERS 10th Anniversary Season

Christopher wrote: View Post
Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
I just got done watching it, not much to really say or add. I don't think either series of results surprised me. If I'm not too much mistaken the moonshine-as-fuel idea shouldn't have been too surprising considering that's essentially what e85 fuel is, granted at a much different mixture, which also shouldn't make it's much lower efficiency surprising.
Well, I've never heard of e85 fuel, so I wouldn't have guessed that. But I know some gasoline has ethanol in it, and I know it's a combustible substance, so it's not a huge surprise.


Running on pure hooch, though, I was a bit surprised how well the modern car ran on it (did Kari say it was or was not a flex-fuel car?) verses the older carburetted engine.
She said it was not specifically flex-fuel, but hedged by saying that maybe its computer would be able to adapt. Seems like something they should've made more of an effort to find out.
e85 is another term for flex-fuel/ethanol engines. If I'm not mistaken some "winter blends" of gasoline has *some* ethanol in it but not much since regular engines can't cope with it, but flex-fuel engines are designed to run on ethanol so run completely on e85/flex-fuel which (as stated) isn't nearly as efficient as gasoline.
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Old January 13 2014, 03:03 AM   #206
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Re: MYTHBUSTERS 10th Anniversary Season

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So, they did it themselves, case closed?

Well, not for me, unfortunately, because I remember watching a documentary back in the day, in which Carrie Fisher said that she'd planned to do the stunt herself until chickening out, and a stunt-woman was brought in at the last second to do it with Mark Hamill. Now, I haven't been able to substantiate that, so it's just as good as in the rumor pile, alright? Still, I'd swear that I remember that. Plus, even if she did say it in an interview once, I suppose it's not out of the question that she was just being dodgy about having actually done it, for whatever reason.
Honestly I had no idea one way or the other. I just presumed they were stunt doubles because the camera was behind them so you couldn't see their faces.

Generally in film if an actor does their own stunt they try and make sure you can actually see it's them. Conversely if it's done with a double they tend to try and shoot it in such a way that you can't see their face.

I'm not saying that's *always* the case, but you'd think Lucas would want to take full advantage of actually seeing the actors do the swing.

[EDIT]

A quick google image search later and it appears they really did do it...or attempt to do it at least.

Maybe the swing Fisher chickened out on was the sail barge one in Jedi? I do remember seeing a photo of her with a double wearing the metal bikini. In fact...*scrolls down* there we go.

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Old January 13 2014, 03:22 AM   #207
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Re: MYTHBUSTERS 10th Anniversary Season

Reverend wrote: View Post
Honestly I had no idea one way or the other. I just presumed they were stunt doubles because the camera was behind them so you couldn't see their faces.

Generally in film if an actor does their own stunt they try and make sure you can actually see it's them. Conversely if it's done with a double they tend to try and shoot it in such a way that you can't see their face.
That's true.

I'm not saying that's *always* the case, but you'd think Lucas would want to take full advantage of actually seeing the actors do the swing.
I really can't speak for Lucas, of course, but I'll note that the original Star Wars was on a budget and the stunt was done in one take. I suspect that the combination of the tight budget and trying to minimize the number of takes meant keeping everything simple and just covering the basics, especially for that shot in particular.

That said, I'm a fan of the raw energy that comes from the almost documentary-style cinematography in a lot of scenes. I know everything is make-believe, but to me somehow it comes off as less staged, that way.

Reverend wrote: View Post
[EDIT]

A quick google image search later and it appears they really did do it...or attempt to do it at least.

Maybe the swing Fisher chickened out on was the sail barge one in Jedi? I do remember seeing a photo of her with a double wearing the metal bikini. In fact...*scrolls down* there we go.
I'm squeeing.
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Old January 13 2014, 03:22 AM   #208
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Re: MYTHBUSTERS 10th Anniversary Season

Reverend wrote: View Post
I do remember seeing a photo of her with a double wearing the metal bikini. In fact...*scrolls down* there we go.
Thank... you.
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Old January 13 2014, 03:09 PM   #209
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Re: MYTHBUSTERS 10th Anniversary Season

I didn't see anything in this thread or in a standalone thread about the Dangerous Toys special that aired after the Moonshiners episode.

While Adam and Jamie weren't busting any myths, this was still a hell of a lot of fun to watch. My kids and I particularly loved Jamie's teddy bear army, and it was nice to see the guys get a little more freedom to have some fun. I think this was a one-shot special, but I wouldn't seeing more.
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Old January 13 2014, 03:47 PM   #210
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Re: MYTHBUSTERS 10th Anniversary Season

Oh, did that involve Adam and Jamie? I didn't realize that.
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