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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old August 8 2013, 12:19 AM   #871
JarodRussell
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

trevanian wrote: View Post
chardman wrote: View Post
JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Those will look as dated as the CRT displays in 2001...
There's not a single CRT display in the whole movie. Some screens were back projected flat screens, and then only in the background. Virtually all foreground displays were matte shots.
You're right that there are no CRTs in 2001 (2010 is another painful matter entirely), but nearly all the displays in 2001 ARE rearprojected, not matted.
That was indeed a typo. 2010 it is. Ten.

That's the point. 2001 is rather timeless because of its excellent production design. 2010 ages pretty badly.
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Old August 8 2013, 01:20 AM   #872
Locutus of Bored
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

James wrote: View Post
I know what a 1500 meter ship looks like and this isn't one of them.
Oh, well, why couldn't you have just said that up front and saved everyone the time and effort? I'm sure they would have just dropped the argument completely if they had known they were going up against someone who just innately knows what a 1500 meter ship looks like.

Let's pack it in, boys.



You see, you keep saying you don't want to be flamed and complaining about imaginary hostility, but then you repeatedly say things that are designed to provoke such hostility, like assuming that your opinion is automatically more valid than anyone else's without backing it up. So, as has been asked by the mod before, what's your endgame here? What do you hope to achieve? Do you want to make people flame you? Because you seem to be going out of your way to poison the well and make that happen.
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Old August 8 2013, 01:44 AM   #873
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

Sorry, I don't feel the need to put up an entire physics lecture just to state my opinion on a science fiction ship. Locutus, are you seriously going to use a picture of that idiot? You couldn't pick a better character, you had to pick the worst Star Wars character ever?
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Old August 8 2013, 02:02 AM   #874
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

In before the (eventual) lock.
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Old August 8 2013, 02:03 AM   #875
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
It looks to me like a tiny rectangle just below the dome, and a perfect fit for the close-up you posted. Take a look (and maybe crank up the brightness on your monitor, which'll make these details easier to differentiate):


The Vengeance bridge was a redress of the Enterprise's, giving us an idea of the size of the ship compared to that window.

It's also worth pointing out that the VFX in Star Wars and Star Trek Into Darkness were done by the same company, Industrial Light and Magic.

Also remember that the shape of a Star Destroyer and a Trek starship are as different as it gets. One is a giant triangular thing, one is a saucer/hull/nacelles thingie with far less internal volume.

The Vengeance is angled downward so the window itself would not reflect any appreciable light for the camera to see and it's window still has some of the glass in it on the left side which can be seen at the end of the ship's crash scene. The shape of the vessel has nothing to do with the size generally speaking, I was simply pointing out that they are allegedly the same size yet one has it's massive bridge being a tiny window while the other ship has a much bigger bridge window. They are clearly not the same size or even close to the same size.
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Old August 8 2013, 04:27 AM   #876
Crazy Eddie
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

James wrote: View Post
I know what a 1500 meter ship looks like...
Really? What DOES a 1500 meter ship look like?

ETA: Something like this, maybe?
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Last edited by Crazy Eddie; August 8 2013 at 05:00 AM.
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Old August 8 2013, 04:38 AM   #877
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

James wrote: View Post
The Vengeance is angled downward so the window itself would not reflect any appreciable light for the camera to see
Yes it would.

The shape of the vessel has nothing to do with the size generally speaking, I was simply pointing out that they are allegedly the same size yet one has it's massive bridge being a tiny window while the other ship has a much bigger bridge window.
So what? The bridge window on SDF-1 is sixty feet tall despite the actual bridge being much smaller than the Enterprise bridge. What does that tell you about the size of the imperial star destroyer OR the Vengeance?

Or are you simply implying that a bigger ship should have a bigger window? That's not even universally true in Star Wars.
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Last edited by Crazy Eddie; August 8 2013 at 05:04 AM.
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Old August 8 2013, 05:50 AM   #878
Locutus of Bored
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

James wrote: View Post
Sorry, I don't feel the need to put up an entire physics lecture just to state my opinion on a science fiction ship.
No one's asking for a physics lecture. They're just asking you to provide a little more than eyeballing the size of windows from two different ships in two different universes and claiming that means anything to this argument.
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Old August 8 2013, 06:46 AM   #879
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
James wrote: View Post
Sorry, I don't feel the need to put up an entire physics lecture just to state my opinion on a science fiction ship.
No one's asking for a physics lecture. They're just asking you to provide a little more than eyeballing the size of windows from two different ships in two different universes and claiming that means anything to this argument.

Drawing on the hull where the parts on doesn't qualify? It seems to work for daniel and you guys don't argue with him on it. Just saying
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Old August 8 2013, 06:53 AM   #880
Crazy Eddie
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

James wrote: View Post
Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
James wrote: View Post
Sorry, I don't feel the need to put up an entire physics lecture just to state my opinion on a science fiction ship.
No one's asking for a physics lecture. They're just asking you to provide a little more than eyeballing the size of windows from two different ships in two different universes and claiming that means anything to this argument.

Drawing on the hull where the parts on doesn't qualify?
Not when you do it "just for spite" and definitely not when you do it in the wrong place.

Frankly I'm still wondering how big you think Admiral Ackbar's flagship is supposed to be given its puny bridge window.
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Old August 8 2013, 06:58 AM   #881
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
James wrote: View Post
Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post

No one's asking for a physics lecture. They're just asking you to provide a little more than eyeballing the size of windows from two different ships in two different universes and claiming that means anything to this argument.

Drawing on the hull where the parts on doesn't qualify?
Not when you do it "just for spite" and definitely not when you do it in the wrong place.

Frankly I'm still wondering how big you think Admiral Ackbar's flagship is supposed to be given its puny bridge window.

Home One is just a tad smaller than an ISD.
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Old August 8 2013, 07:48 AM   #882
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

James wrote: View Post
The Vengeance is angled downward so the window itself would not reflect any appreciable light for the camera to see
So what am I seeing inside that red circle? A reflection painted onto the hull? Come on!
and it's window still has some of the glass in it on the left side which can be seen at the end of the ship's crash scene. The shape of the vessel has nothing to do with the size generally speaking,
It has everything to do with size! You'd fit a LOT more into a Star Destroyer than a flat blade of a saucer and chunky engineering hull with nacelles making up 1/3 of the length at the rear.
I was simply pointing out that they are allegedly the same size yet one has it's massive bridge being a tiny window while the other ship has a much bigger bridge window. They are clearly not the same size or even close to the same size.

If the Enterprise is only 366m long, can you please tell me how you explain:

-The atrium behind the bridge.

If you can suggest an alternate location for this, I would very much like to hear it.

-The placement of the 40ft shuttles in the shuttle bay



The fact that everything is huge!


I love classic Trek. I've collected all the manuals and blueprints since I was a little kid. The old TV series Enterprise from 1966 is 289m long. The old movie Enterprise from 1979 is 305m long. New people are running Star Trek now, and their version of the ship (from an alternate reality, no less) is 725m long. Why? Because they made it that big, and nothing would fit inside if it were any smaller. The Vengeance, as we see throughout Into Darkness, is twice the length.
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Old August 8 2013, 07:52 AM   #883
Locutus of Bored
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

James wrote: View Post
Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
James wrote: View Post
Sorry, I don't feel the need to put up an entire physics lecture just to state my opinion on a science fiction ship.
No one's asking for a physics lecture. They're just asking you to provide a little more than eyeballing the size of windows from two different ships in two different universes and claiming that means anything to this argument.
Drawing on the hull where the parts on doesn't qualify? It seems to work for daniel and you guys don't argue with him on it. Just saying
No, because your argument still consists of comparing two different windows of different sizes on different ships in different universes shot from different angles. You can draw a happy face on it and say pretty please too, it's not going to overcome the inherent weakness of the argument.

Comparing your scribble to the level of evidence King Daniel and others have presented is ludicrous. Plus, he doesn't have the uphill battle of stubbornly and overzealously competing against what the production designers, CGI artists, filmmakers, and onscreen evidence says about the ships, so why would you expect that anyone would argue with him about it?

I'm not going to argue with you any more unless you present some detailed evidence to support your point of view, and I would suggest everyone else just do the same. It's obvious that you have nothing significant to add to the debate and that you're simply going to be the latest iteration of the tireless rebutters who have beaten this subject to death before with little to show in the way evidence. It's a four year old argument that feels like it's twice that age and still nothing new has even come close to suggesting that the ships are as small as you say they are.

You're free to carry on, but I would drop the attitude toward others if you want to continue.
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Old August 8 2013, 09:45 AM   #884
JarodRussell
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

Why don't you guys just compare the size of the Vengeance against the city (especially Alcatraz) and then compare the size of the Enterprise against the Vengeance using this?
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Last edited by JarodRussell; August 8 2013 at 09:55 AM.
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Old August 8 2013, 10:07 AM   #885
Belz...
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

James wrote: View Post
That's actually the domed crescent design reflecting sunlight.
You have got to be kidding.

I know what a 1500 meter ship looks like
No you don't. Furthermore, we were talking about Enterprise, for which there is much more size-related evidence.

Sorry, I don't feel the need to put up an entire physics lecture just to state my opinion on a science fiction ship.
And here's your problem: you try to argue for a certain size, but when other people have better arguments, suddenly arguments don't matter because it's fiction. If it doesn't matter, why are you even here ?

Locutus, are you seriously going to use a picture of that idiot? You couldn't pick a better character, you had to pick the worst Star Wars character ever?
I'm going to miss you.
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