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Old April 30 2013, 01:42 PM   #16
Stoo
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Re: Why so few people come from the colonies...?

Heh this is something that's occured to me in the past, just cos I'm used to playing space strategy games like Master of Orion where by the mid game your homeworld is usually just one of several high-population planets.

I never really followed in Trek if human colonies had extensive development, cities and and populations etc. Or were just like one small town.

Last edited by Stoo; April 30 2013 at 06:08 PM.
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Old April 30 2013, 03:12 PM   #17
Timo
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Re: Why so few people come from the colonies...?

The heroes deal with the far frontier, so they tend to encounter only very small colonies - typically, village-sized communities based on sustenance farming. When Sisko bombed a "Maquis world", his nemesis Eddington believed that "hundreds of thousands" would be displaced if Sisko continued his actions on other planets. The single world thus only had tens of thousands at most...

Basically, the only witnessed colony that appears to have been founded by more than just one shipment of daring frontiersmen is Deneva from TOS, an old freight hub past its prime. In "Operation: Annihilate!", the world had at least one large city with high-rise buildings, but interacted only minimally with the rest of the Federation (it going silent didn't raise eyebrows for a full year!), and only had "almost a million" people, of whom "more than 100,000" lived in the city we saw.

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Old April 30 2013, 04:23 PM   #18
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Re: Why so few people come from the colonies...?

I suspect it's like real life in that respect, if you switch planets/colonies for villages, towns and cities. A small number of planets with huge populations (Luna, Mars, Alpha Centauri, Turkana IV, et.al.), with the majority having only small settlements.
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Old May 1 2013, 06:57 AM   #19
JirinPanthosa
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Re: Why so few people come from the colonies...?

I can see most extraterrestrial colonies having small settlements but why aren't planets more mixed? Shouldn't betazed be about 50% betazoids, and the other 50% be randomly mixed up of all other Federation planets? Shoudn't tons of aliens have expatriated to Vulcan, or Bolias?

Shouldn't, by this point in the 24th century, planet of residence have less correlation with your species?

And shouldn't like 20% of the population be noid-mutts?
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Old May 1 2013, 09:49 AM   #20
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Re: Why so few people come from the colonies...?

QCzar wrote: View Post
Also, the Earth-based colonization is not a great example since, even with the given of the US (which is a special case I think many would agree) the entire population of white Europeans living outside of Europe is still much smaller than Europe's as a whole (this is relative to Earth's population). This after they began colonizing outside of Europe almost 700 years ago, on one planet no less.
Setting aside the charming sub-category of "white Europeans," the combined population of the Americas and Australia exceeds Europe's by some 200 million people, to be sure there are original peoples there as well as immigrates from other areas of the world. Still there are more people of European descent living outside of Europe that inside.

... even with the given of the US (which is a special case I think many would agree)
Not sure that I grasp what you mean here, special case how?

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From Kirk's conversation with Zefram Cochrane, the argument could be made that Kirk's use of "we're" in this case refers only to Humans.

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Old May 1 2013, 08:26 PM   #21
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Re: Why so few people come from the colonies...?

I'd imagine that to a certain degree that the populations on these emerging colonies are more concerned with expanding the colonies themselves than heading back from the frontier. It's not quite like living in a quiet town or village in an established country, where the dull tedium of village life would inspire you to go out and join Starfleet, colony life would have it's fair share of high activity.
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Old May 1 2013, 08:35 PM   #22
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Re: Why so few people come from the colonies...?

Yes, but what percentage of children born in the colonies would share their parents colonial spirit? If I were born and raised on some far-flung planet with 10,000 people, the bright lights of a planet like Earth or Betazed would be pretty appealing to me.
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Old May 2 2013, 12:27 PM   #23
Timo
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Re: Why so few people come from the colonies...?

...In which case I certainly wouldn't join Starfleet, an organization that would send me right back to the frontier!

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Old May 2 2013, 06:13 PM   #24
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Re: Why so few people come from the colonies...?

A career in Starfleet might give you the means to retire on Earth, or one of the high population colony worlds. A regular career might not.

Or you could buy yourself a nice little bungalow on Risa.

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Old May 3 2013, 04:41 AM   #25
JirinPanthosa
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Re: Why so few people come from the colonies...?

Honestly there probably should be very few purebreds of any sort left on Federation planets.
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Old May 3 2013, 06:05 AM   #26
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Re: Why so few people come from the colonies...?

JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
Honestly there probably should be very few purebreds of any sort left on Federation planets.
Really? I'd say that the ability to colonize space would only keep ethnic groups together and if anything slow the intermixing of races.

When you can just up and go into space and colonize a random planet no one else is on, people are going to. Trek even supports this. You have the colony of Irish farmers. You have the colony of Native Americans(who are no longer native or in America... Indians then?), and so forth.

I wouldn't see why groups of other ethnic groups wouldn't form their own colonies too.
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Old May 3 2013, 06:52 AM   #27
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Re: Why so few people come from the colonies...?

Not just ethnic groups, but others too, like those who leave to escape religious persecution. For instance, a planet of members from the W*stb*r* B*pt*st Ch*rch who visit other worlds to hold signs at funerals for disaster victims. In which case, we just nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
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Old May 3 2013, 11:05 AM   #28
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Re: Why so few people come from the colonies...?

The colonials are the cast offs, and inferior, the folks everyone once said 'go west' in the Americas. They will have to tell their own stories, the motherland will always see them as the folks across the galactic pond.
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Old May 3 2013, 09:49 PM   #29
T'Girl
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Re: Why so few people come from the colonies...?

JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
Honestly there probably should be very few purebreds of any sort left on Federation planets.
Given the Federation's two centuries of existence, "purebreds" would likely still be the norm. However, species that had been making babies together for extended periods prior to the Federation's creation might have at least a small percentage of their population be of mixed heritage.

Gov Kodos wrote: View Post
The colonials are the cast offs, and inferior, the folks everyone once said 'go west' in the Americas.
But the emigrants would also be a brain drain on the "old world" that is Earth, The colonies would also bleed off the adventurists, the non-conformists, the free spirits and many of the people who are creative and form new ideas.

Zefram Cochrane seems to have left fairly quickly.

Melakon wrote: View Post
Not just ethnic groups, but others too, like those who leave to escape religious persecution.
Or the culturally persecution, people who want to advance in a direction the rest (majority) of society doesn't wish to.

In which case, we just nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
It's hard to accept diversity, when it's diversity that you don't agree with.


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Old May 3 2013, 11:32 PM   #30
JirinPanthosa
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Re: Why so few people come from the colonies...?

R. Star wrote: View Post
JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
Honestly there probably should be very few purebreds of any sort left on Federation planets.
Really? I'd say that the ability to colonize space would only keep ethnic groups together and if anything slow the intermixing of races.

When you can just up and go into space and colonize a random planet no one else is on, people are going to. Trek even supports this. You have the colony of Irish farmers. You have the colony of Native Americans(who are no longer native or in America... Indians then?), and so forth.

I wouldn't see why groups of other ethnic groups wouldn't form their own colonies too.
On outer colonies there'd probably be a higher concentration of purebreds. But what about Earth? Vulcan? Andor? Betazed? It's clearly not taboo in any of those places to crossbreed. Near population centers, and especially near Starfleet posts, I'd expect at least a quarter of the population to be mixed species.

Why aren't there orphanages full of noid-mutts inside every port city?
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