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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Future of Trek

Future of Trek Discussion of future Trek projects.

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Old May 23 2013, 02:45 PM   #61
Belz...
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Re: Let's get back to Roddenberry's trek

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
Which was actually true of TOS as well because there really wasn't any tension between the characters there as well. Sure, Spock and McCoy occasionally got into disagreements and traded barbs with one another, but it wasn't like they hated one another.

The only real difference with the TNG characters was that their disagreements were more civil and didn't resort to name-calling.

But with both TOS and TNG, the main conflicts involved characters who weren't members of the crew (the sometimes referred to "conflict from outside").
This is one of the reasons why DS9 is so good for me. There's some real tension, there, although of course it fades between the main characters as the show goes along.
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Old May 23 2013, 05:16 PM   #62
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Re: Let's get back to Roddenberry's trek

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
Which was actually true of TOS as well because there really wasn't any tension between the characters there as well. Sure, Spock and McCoy occasionally got into disagreements and traded barbs with one another, but it wasn't like they hated one another.
I don't think anyone is saying the characters hated each other. I suppose you could debate whether or not the regular characters had substantive conflicts, but you can't argue that that was not the intention.

TO: Fred Freiberger
FROM: Gene Roddenberry
DATE: May 23, 1968
SUBJECT: “Wink of an Eye” Story Outline 3/22/68 by Lee Cronin

(excerpted from a 3-page story memo)

I think also he will see that we don’t have enough inter-character relationships among our continuing people. We need conflicts, disagreements, rich personality relationship between Kirk, Spock, McCoy and others. Otherwise, our “television family group” becomes a rather uninteresting assortment of similar individuals who stand around throwing each other lines and generally agreeing with each other.
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Old June 3 2013, 06:18 PM   #63
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Re: Let's get back to Roddenberry's trek

R. Star wrote: View Post
wissaboo wrote: View Post
I don't know, the cities and civilians looked pretty Utopian to me.
Was this before or after a megavillain started blowing them up, then culminating with a giant megaship crashing into it having to kill thousands at the very least?
As we all know, a Utopian society would never come under attack.

Personally I think utopia is a pipe dream at best. It is nice to think about but it is unreachable so long as such a society is run by flawed beings capable of mistakes and poor judgement.
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Old June 4 2013, 04:52 PM   #64
C.E. Evans
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Re: Let's get back to Roddenberry's trek

Harvey wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
Which was actually true of TOS as well because there really wasn't any tension between the characters there as well. Sure, Spock and McCoy occasionally got into disagreements and traded barbs with one another, but it wasn't like they hated one another.
I don't think anyone is saying the characters hated each other. I suppose you could debate whether or not the regular characters had substantive conflicts, but you can't argue that that was not the intention.
Don't know what you mean by that, but TNG really wasn't that different from TOS in that interpersonal conflicts came mostly from outside the crew.
TO: Fred Freiberger
FROM: Gene Roddenberry
DATE: May 23, 1968
SUBJECT: “Wink of an Eye” Story Outline 3/22/68 by Lee Cronin

(excerpted from a 3-page story memo)

I think also he will see that we don’t have enough inter-character relationships among our continuing people. We need conflicts, disagreements, rich personality relationship between Kirk, Spock, McCoy and others. Otherwise, our “television family group” becomes a rather uninteresting assortment of similar individuals who stand around throwing each other lines and generally agreeing with each other
I don't think Roddenberry wanted a dysfunctional crew that spent more time fighting each other than bad guys. Any disagreements the crew would have would be relevant to the story at hand rather than be something that carried from episode to episode. But I do think the only real difference between TOS and TNG on this front was how they handled their disagreements--the TOS gang tended to be more vocal with them while the TNG gang tended to internalize them. In that case, you could argue it being a difference between the attitudes of the '60s and the '80s.
Belz... wrote:
This is one of the reasons why DS9 is so good for me. There's some real tension, there, although of course it fades between the main characters as the show goes along.
It was the nature of the show to do that, IMO. The DS9 gang eventually came together as a family, whereas TOS and TNG were like that from the start.
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Old June 4 2013, 06:15 PM   #65
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Re: Let's get back to Roddenberry's trek

In TNG's case, a bit too quickly. In TOS it's implied some of them have known each other for at least a short while, I think.
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Old June 4 2013, 06:55 PM   #66
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Re: Let's get back to Roddenberry's trek

Belz... wrote: View Post
In TNG's case, a bit too quickly. In TOS it's implied some of them have known each other for at least a short while, I think.
There was indication that Kirk and McCoy were friends prior to coming to the Enterprise; Kirk and the late Gary Mitchell had known each other since the Academy; and there was likely a friendship between Mitchell and the late Lee Kelso, although that one may have started on the Enterprise.
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Old June 10 2013, 07:47 PM   #67
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Re: Let's get back to Roddenberry's trek

Depends what you mean by Roddenberry trek? If its TOS era trek cool yeah. If its his retarded vision displayed in the first 2 series of TNG the HELL NO!

"Roddenberry vision"

I hate that phrase, it makes his sound like some prophet or something.
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Old June 11 2013, 01:54 AM   #68
newtontomato539
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Re: Let's get back to Roddenberry's trek

Good

TNG: Data's Trial, Worf and Klingon stories, Yesterday's Enterprise, The Best of Both Worlds and All Good Things.

Bad

Worf: "We should do this." or "We shouldn't do this."

Everyone else: "Piss Off!"

It wasn't until the movie First Contact that Worf said these words to Picard:

"If you were any other man, I would kill you where you stand!"
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Old June 11 2013, 02:10 AM   #69
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Re: Let's get back to Roddenberry's trek

Crazyewok wrote: View Post
Depends what you mean by Roddenberry trek? If its TOS era trek cool yeah. If its his retarded vision displayed in the first 2 series of TNG the HELL NO!
That "retarded vision displayed in the first 2 series of TNG" was pretty much 75% Berman. Half-way through the first season, Roddenberry handed over the reins to Berman and stepped back into a supervisory (i.e., back seat driver) role.
"Roddenberry vision"

I hate that phrase, it makes his sound like some prophet or something.
It's been twisted somewhat over the years, but it's really just a term given to his initial idea of a starship with a very diverse crew exploring the Galaxy together in an idealized future.
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Old June 11 2013, 10:21 AM   #70
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Re: Let's get back to Roddenberry's trek

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
That "retarded vision displayed in the first 2 series of TNG" was pretty much 75% Berman. Half-way through the first season, Roddenberry handed over the reins to Berman and stepped back into a supervisory (i.e., back seat driver) role.
So what happened to give us season 3+, then ?
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Old June 11 2013, 10:23 AM   #71
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Re: Let's get back to Roddenberry's trek

Belz... wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
That "retarded vision displayed in the first 2 series of TNG" was pretty much 75% Berman. Half-way through the first season, Roddenberry handed over the reins to Berman and stepped back into a supervisory (i.e., back seat driver) role.
So what happened to give us season 3+, then ?
Michael Piller joined the show as an executive producer.
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Old June 11 2013, 01:57 PM   #72
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Re: Let's get back to Roddenberry's trek

shhhh.

"Berman is God" tm.
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Old June 11 2013, 09:06 PM   #73
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Re: Let's get back to Roddenberry's trek

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
Belz... wrote: View Post
So what happened to give us season 3+, then ?
Michael Piller joined the show as an executive producer.
Ah, I didn't know that. Interesting.
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Old June 19 2013, 11:18 PM   #74
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Re: Let's get back to Roddenberry's trek

Roddenberry's Trek was never a utopia.

Cyrano Jones, Harry Mudd, Captain Tracey, Kodos, criminal penitentiaries, and that's just TOS.

Even TNG wasn't as much of a utopia that people think, Tasha's traumatic background was from a failed Federation Colony for example. If Berman was following the "vision", he also introduced rogue admirals (Kennelly and Pressman), and the Maquis.
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Old June 20 2013, 02:15 AM   #75
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Re: Let's get back to Roddenberry's trek

solariabsg25 wrote: View Post
Roddenberry's Trek was never a utopia.

Cyrano Jones, Harry Mudd, Captain Tracey, Kodos, criminal penitentiaries, and that's just TOS.

Even TNG wasn't as much of a utopia that people think, Tasha's traumatic background was from a failed Federation Colony for example. If Berman was following the "vision", he also introduced rogue admirals (Kennelly and Pressman), and the Maquis.
Well I think the idea was that Earth was a Utopia, but even that never fully held true.
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