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Old January 13 2014, 09:27 PM   #1
jimcat
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Treaty of Algeron?

Hello everyone,
A while ago, I started looking at creating a revised star map of the Romulan Neutral Zone, as it appeared on the floor of the Romulan Senate in "Star Trek: Nemesis". Not because I especially like the film, it's just that there are a lot of images out there of the Neutral Zone, but none showing that particular change.
The image itself is kind of a "first pass", because I abandoned the idea once it was announced that there'd be a super new set of Star Trek Maps being published.
Well, the price of "Stellar Cartography" dipped to the point I could convince myself to buy it, and...
The Treaty of Algeron is completely ignored. (I hope that doesn't count as a spoiler.) I've shrunk the image, so I hope it's still legible, and I'm afraid I've nowhere near enough posts for this to be visible:

so I'm adding a direct link to the webpage, too.
http://atavachron.wdfiles.com/local-.../newneut1a.jpg
And one to the original size image, if the labels are impossible for you to read:
http://atavachron.wdfiles.com/local-...55/newneut.jpg
The map itself was done completely from scratch, based on the "Star Charts" interpretation of location and sectors, but using the "revised" neutral zone and Romulan forward bases. There are a few additional changes of my own, since the huge string of Federation border emplacements in that book bothers me, so I've tried to collapse the number a little by assuming some name changes over time. The background stars aren't random, I generated them from Hipparcos data, using "Astrosynthesis" (a bit of star-mapping software you have to buy, but I've found it worth it).
Incidentally, this is my first post in the art forum, and I can't help noticing that my contribution is rather small and basic. Everyone has to start somewhere, though, and I'd like to use the opportunity to thank everyone who has made lurking in this forum so entertaining and informative over the years.

Best wishes,

Timon
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Old January 13 2014, 10:41 PM   #2
Bernard Guignard
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Re: Treaty of Algeron?

That looks real good:techman
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Old January 13 2014, 10:52 PM   #3
Potemkin_Prod
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Re: Treaty of Algeron?

Timon, are those stars in their actual positions?
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Old January 13 2014, 11:42 PM   #4
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Re: Treaty of Algeron?

looks a good to me
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Old January 14 2014, 11:47 AM   #5
Robert Comsol
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Re: Treaty of Algeron?

jimcat wrote: View Post
A while ago, I started looking at creating a revised star map of the Romulan Neutral Zone, as it appeared on the floor of the Romulan Senate in "Star Trek: Nemesis". Not because I especially like the film, it's just that there are a lot of images out there of the Neutral Zone, but none showing that particular change.
That's a really great idea! I did take another look at the floor of the Romulan Senate but I find myself a little disorientated.

Is the brownish area the Romulan Star Empire (suggested by that central circular element)?

I also liked a lot that Cheron ("Let That Be Your Last Battlefield"!?!) is now within the Romulan Star Empire.

Bob
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Old January 14 2014, 12:57 PM   #6
jimcat
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Re: Treaty of Algeron?

Hello everyone,
Thanks for the kind reception.
@Potemkin_Prod: All the stars are at their correct galactic system coordinates, according to the Hipparcos Catalogue. That doesn't necessarily mean that they are in the right places, but it's as close as current knowledge will allow. There might not be a perfect match with the "Star Trek Star Charts", because I decided to adjust the features of the fictional Star Trek maps, rather than the real stars for the map. That said, I've tried to keep any distortion of the map features as small as I could. The positive and negative numbers in brackets at each named star indicates the distance in light years above or below the Galactic equator (aka the Z coordinate). The sector grid is aligned with the one in the "Star Trek Star Charts", and is 20 light year squares.
@Robert Comsol: Yes, the brown bit is the Romulan Empire. The art involved was very briefly available at the time the movie was released, but the best version of it I could find when I decided I wanted to do this was a comparison picture done by Bernd Schneider at "Ex Astris Scientia":
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/in...omulan-map.jpg
It's not the absolute best source (I should have saved the original image!) but it does make things clearer than what appeared on film.
As for Cheron, it's one of those names that were so good, they used it twice. There's a Romulan War Cheron, which is the one on the map, and a "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" Cheron, that seems to be much further away, since it is close to a dark nebula or "coalsack".

Timon
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Old January 14 2014, 05:34 PM   #7
Potemkin_Prod
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Re: Treaty of Algeron?

jimcat wrote: View Post
@Potemkin_Prod: All the stars are at their correct galactic system coordinates, according to the Hipparcos Catalogue. That doesn't necessarily mean that they are in the right places, but it's as close as current knowledge will allow. There might not be a perfect match with the "Star Trek Star Charts", because I decided to adjust the features of the fictional Star Trek maps, rather than the real stars for the map. That said, I've tried to keep any distortion of the map features as small as I could. The positive and negative numbers in brackets at each named star indicates the distance in light years above or below the Galactic equator (aka the Z coordinate). The sector grid is aligned with the one in the "Star Trek Star Charts", and is 20 light year squares.
Excellent. I rather dislike the Star Trek Star Charts fictional maps. Dr. Jim Ausfahl attempted to create accurate star charts for Orion Press some years ago:
http://www.orionpressfanzines.com/st.../star_maps.htm
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Old January 17 2014, 04:14 PM   #8
jimcat
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Re: Treaty of Algeron?

Hello again, everyone,
I just wanted to point out that the "Star Trek Star Charts" do have the stars mostly in the right places by galactic coordinates. Obviously "Romulus", "Romii" and "Charon" aren't real objects, but the names were assigned to genuine stars, as Jed Whitten has demonstrated at his website:
http://starmap.whitten.org/
As far as I can tell, only "Beta Rigel" is entirely fictitious, along with the various enormous nebulae that manage to be all over the near galaxy, but remain stubbornly invisible to contemporary astronomy.
Of course, you can take all this far too seriously, but the huge advances in our knowledge of the Universe is something that's as interesting to me in real life as it is in the fictional setting of "Star Trek".

Best wishes,
Timon
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Old March 25 2014, 10:21 PM   #9
Robert Comsol
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Re: Treaty of Algeron?

Just came across what looks to be a top view of the NEM star map in the Romulan Senate: http://startrekblog.files.wordpress..../03/rick03.png

Hope it can be of use.

Bob
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Old March 26 2014, 09:07 AM   #10
jimcat
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Re: Treaty of Algeron?

Hello everyone,
Thanks Robert Comsol, I did another search myself for a better image and came across this one too. It's very useful, not least for showing what way up the image is meant to be, and also for making it much clearer that the Romulan home star system is probably not at anything like the same scale as the rest of the map. Further work on a "mark 2" map is rather slow just now, so I hope no-one's holding their breath.
As it turned out, the image has been posted as a collectable map print for sale by Rick Sternbach on eBay. I was very tempted, but the price is a little high for me. Especially when I bought the TNG Tech Memos instead and had them shipped across the Atlantic.
Best wishes,
Timon
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Old March 27 2014, 02:17 AM   #11
Shawnster
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Re: Treaty of Algeron?

I've been fascinated by this map/floor emblem likewise. However, I wonder why the Romulans would make such a thing. Why decorate the floor of your senate chamber with something depicting the Federation border. Not only that, but the Federation territory takes up half the image. Makes no sense.

But it's cool.
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Old March 27 2014, 03:03 AM   #12
Hartzilla2007
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Re: Treaty of Algeron?

Shawnster wrote: View Post
However, I wonder why the Romulans would make such a thing. Why decorate the floor of your senate chamber with something depicting the Federation border. Not only that, but the Federation territory takes up half the image.
Well According to Enterprise the Romulans had a belief in unlimited expansion of their empire, not to mention a bit of a high opinion of their selves.

So a Neutral Zone that halts their expansion, that also serves as a reminder that they got their asses kicked by the new guy on the block (at the time) is probably a considerable blow to the ego the Romulans have trouble getting over.
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Old March 27 2014, 04:25 AM   #13
Dukhat
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Re: Treaty of Algeron?

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
Shawnster wrote: View Post
However, I wonder why the Romulans would make such a thing. Why decorate the floor of your senate chamber with something depicting the Federation border. Not only that, but the Federation territory takes up half the image.
Well According to Enterprise the Romulans had a belief in unlimited expansion of their empire, not to mention a bit of a high opinion of their selves.

So a Neutral Zone that halts their expansion, that also serves as a reminder that they got their asses kicked by the new guy on the block (at the time) is probably a considerable blow to the ego the Romulans have trouble getting over.
Exactly. And this feeling is completely borne out in TNG's "The Defector," when Alidar Jarok tells Picard that the Romulans are still smiting over the Battle of Cheron, which took place 200 years earlier.
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Old March 29 2014, 01:34 AM   #14
Robert Comsol
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Re: Treaty of Algeron?

Shawnster wrote: View Post
Why decorate the floor of your senate chamber with something depicting the Federation border. Not only that, but the Federation territory takes up half the image.
If you look at the Romulan sun (?) you'll notice that it radiates far into UFP territory.

To me that looks like some kind of things-still-to-do-list.

Bob
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Old March 30 2014, 02:04 AM   #15
Rick Sternbach
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Re: Treaty of Algeron?

Shawnster wrote: View Post
I've been fascinated by this map/floor emblem likewise. However, I wonder why the Romulans would make such a thing. Why decorate the floor of your senate chamber with something depicting the Federation border. Not only that, but the Federation territory takes up half the image. Makes no sense.

But it's cool.
A couple of reasons for the map being shaped as it is - think of the story of Picard and Shinzon, or more simply the history of the Federation and the Romulan Star Empire, and then look at the shape of the map. That's all the hints I'm giving you.

Little Update: When I talk about the map, I'm really talking about my original concept. The studio paint crew did not exactly copy what I had done, though they were given all of the cut vinyl elements and color specs. A number of the outposts were eliminated, and some of the star symbols were not fully colored in. It's not fair of me to make folks think about why the map was designed as it was unless they get to see the original art, which was referenced in a link a few messages above.

Rick
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Last edited by Rick Sternbach; March 30 2014 at 02:12 AM. Reason: furhter explanation
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