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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old June 15 2013, 08:53 PM   #91
Sran
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

Dale Sams wrote: View Post
The more I think about it (and having just watched BOBW) the more..."Now I see why he didn't get his own command" comes off as utterly insane.
Jellico said, "I see why he's still just a first officer," before Picard tried to redirect his thinking, but that's beside the point. I don't think he was criticizing Riker's past accomplishments as much as he was questioning his initiative, something that an aspiring captain would need to show before taking the center seat of any vessel.

I agree that Jellico's communication skills needed work, but as captain, the onus wasn't on him to make sure his orders were carried out. That responsibility fell to Riker as his executive officer, a responsibility Riker was more than willing to throw away just because he didn't agree with Jellico's command style. What Riker did was childish and something that I hope was noted in his record. The events of "Chain of Command" aren't mentioned again, but one can only hope Riker learned as much from this incident as he did his problems with Admiral Pressman.

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Old June 15 2013, 09:21 PM   #92
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

Besides, The real hero of BoBW is Data. Without Data hacking the collective, nothing Riker did while in command would have amounted to jack. I think Riker being the savior of Earth from the Borg is vastly ovberblown
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Old June 15 2013, 09:40 PM   #93
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

Gary7 wrote: View Post
^ One thing we're all overlooking at this point: there wasn't really a need for a 4 shift rotation, was there? In the conflict with the Borg, the writers never even brought it up. You'd just assume that in any dire situation, people would be pulled from off-duty or slumber to jump in and help for as long as they were needed.

So why institute this shift rotation? Without a good hard case to show WHY Jellico instituted this 4 duty shift rotation, it kind of falls flat.
Because you're likely sharper looking at a display for six hours instead of eight. The longer you sit there, the more likely it is that your response time suffers.
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Old June 15 2013, 09:49 PM   #94
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

Dale Sams wrote: View Post
The more I think about it (and having just watched BOBW) the more..."Now I see why he didn't get his own command" comes off as utterly insane. We ARE talking about the guy whose plan saved Earth, and probably the Federation and the AQ aren't we??? I mean seriously Jellico? You come in and start blasting orders, keep your officers in the dark as to your intentions...and then stand there baffled when there are communication problems and slander a ****ing hero? Look in the mirror dude.

If there were any kind of hearing...Jean Luc Picard giving testimony that Jellico said that about Riker...that ALONE would probably get Jellico shipped off to Delta Vega.
So Jellico gets shipped off to Delta Vega because he doesn't think Riker is the superstar everyone thinks after averting a war that could have cost millions of lives?

Funny stuff.
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Old June 15 2013, 10:05 PM   #95
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

BillJ wrote: View Post
So Jellico gets shipped off to Delta Vega because he doesn't think Riker is the superstar everyone thinks after averting a war that could have cost millions of lives?
I agree. Jellico's entitled to his opinion. Riker didn't do much to change that opinion with his temper tantrum on the bridge. If anyone should have been worried about being shipped out, it's Riker, not Jellico.

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Old June 16 2013, 12:55 AM   #96
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

BillJ wrote: View Post
Dale Sams wrote: View Post

You all are utterly ignoring "Now I know why he didn't get his own command" REALLY? Where was the Cairo... Jellico during the Battle of Wolf 359?
I'm not. But something kept Riker from getting his own command after Wolf 359. After losing thirty-nine starships, Starfleet would've had little choice but to kick Riker to the captain's chair of a starship. They suffered major losses all through the Dominion War yet Riker was left in the XO spot.
Definitely. Riker wouldn't have been allowed to remain first officer of the Enterprise. He would have been requested AND required to take command of a starship after the Borg incident.

When I first saw this episode, I thought Jellico was an ass but ultimately he came through and saved the day. As I got older, I realized he was right in the way he went about his business and the crew was wrong. By asking Will to pilot the shuttle instead of ordering him, Jellico proved to be the bigger man than Will.

Most of the Trek books seem to take the view that Jellico is an ass and he's pretty much written that way.

I will say one thing, Necheyev didn't exactly get things started on the right foot by marching into Picard's ready room and declaring that he was no longer the captain of the Enterprise. Seriously, there's got to be a better way to ease into that conversation. I always thought sending old man Picard to let a covert operation in the field was an odd choice too.

Last edited by DarthPipes; June 16 2013 at 01:06 AM.
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Old June 16 2013, 01:11 AM   #97
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

DarthPipes wrote: View Post
I always thought sending old man Picard to let a covert operation in the field was an odd choice too.
Well, they justified that decision because of his experience with theta-band emissions while captain of the Stargazer.

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Old June 16 2013, 02:04 AM   #98
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

Sran wrote: View Post
DarthPipes wrote: View Post
I always thought sending old man Picard to let a covert operation in the field was an odd choice too.
Well, they justified that decision because of his experience with theta-band emissions while captain of the Stargazer.

--Sran
So? Why can't they take the science officer who's 20 years younger on that Starship or something? It doesn't have to be the captain of the ship.

It was thin rationale for the sake of the plot, but at least they tried to explain it. The real endgame was to get Picard into the room with Madred.
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Old June 16 2013, 02:53 AM   #99
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

R. Star wrote: View Post
Sran wrote: View Post
DarthPipes wrote: View Post
I always thought sending old man Picard to let a covert operation in the field was an odd choice too.
Well, they justified that decision because of his experience with theta-band emissions while captain of the Stargazer.

--Sran
So? Why can't they take the science officer who's 20 years younger on that Starship or something? It doesn't have to be the captain of the ship.

It was thin rationale for the sake of the plot, but at least they tried to explain it. The real endgame was to get Picard into the room with Madred.
Probably some classified stuff only Picard knew about. A la omega.
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Old June 16 2013, 05:58 AM   #100
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

BillJ wrote: View Post
Dale Sams wrote: View Post
The more I think about it (and having just watched BOBW) the more..."Now I see why he didn't get his own command" comes off as utterly insane. We ARE talking about the guy whose plan saved Earth, and probably the Federation and the AQ aren't we??? I mean seriously Jellico? You come in and start blasting orders, keep your officers in the dark as to your intentions...and then stand there baffled when there are communication problems and slander a ****ing hero? Look in the mirror dude.

If there were any kind of hearing...Jean Luc Picard giving testimony that Jellico said that about Riker...that ALONE would probably get Jellico shipped off to Delta Vega.
So Jellico gets shipped off to Delta Vega because he doesn't think Riker is the superstar everyone thinks after averting a war that could have cost millions of lives?

Funny stuff.
Jellico-Millions
Riker-Quadrillions.

But, you're probably right. (No sarcasm). The only way I could make that work is for everyone on the E to conspire to paint him in the worst way possible.

Mojochi wrote: View Post
Besides, The real hero of BoBW is Data. Without Data hacking the collective, nothing Riker did while in command would have amounted to jack. I think Riker being the savior of Earth from the Borg is vastly ovberblown
It was Riker's GD plan to capture Picard and use him to access the Collective.
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Old June 16 2013, 06:03 AM   #101
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

BillJ wrote: View Post
Gary7 wrote: View Post
^ One thing we're all overlooking at this point: there wasn't really a need for a 4 shift rotation, was there? In the conflict with the Borg, the writers never even brought it up. You'd just assume that in any dire situation, people would be pulled from off-duty or slumber to jump in and help for as long as they were needed.

So why institute this shift rotation? Without a good hard case to show WHY Jellico instituted this 4 duty shift rotation, it kind of falls flat.
Because you're likely sharper looking at a display for six hours instead of eight. The longer you sit there, the more likely it is that your response time suffers.
I *still* don't know what the hell Chekov and Sulu are doing to keep from going batshit insane.

SULU: "Sitting here. Still sitting. Looking at a starfield. Running out of things to talk about. Oh look, Spock gets to look in his viewer all day and do stuff on the computer. Uhura gets to talk to people all over the ship."

SPOCK: "Mr. Chekov, I need you over here at the science station to assist me."

SULU: "What the..."

Chekov: "Neener. Neener."
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Old June 16 2013, 06:18 AM   #102
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

^ ^ ^ ^ ^
Ummmm?????? Wrong forum?
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Old June 16 2013, 06:54 AM   #103
Dale Sams
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

Mutai Sho-Rin wrote: View Post
^ ^ ^ ^ ^
Ummmm?????? Wrong forum?
I can't use Data cause he can't get bored. And Crusher's station looks pretty advanced. He's probably got a Gameboy in there somewhere.
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Old June 16 2013, 11:45 PM   #104
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

Justification of the plot device.

It may be contradictory.
It may be outlandish.
It might even be stupid.
But in some sense it justifies... how well, depending upon your POV.
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Old June 17 2013, 01:27 AM   #105
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

Dale Sams wrote: View Post
It was Riker's GD plan to capture Picard and use him to access the Collective.
Actually, Riker's idea was to rescue Picard & try to return him to normal, in the hopes that he'd be able to aid them in combating the Borg with his knowledge of them, basically trying to level the playing field, because they now had all Picard's knowledge. It's not a bad plan really, but it would not have been successful

It was Data's idea to hack the collective by trying to "access the machine" which controlled Picard. That alone is what saved every living person in The Federation. Well... I suppose it also helped greatly that Picard broke through & gave Data the hint he needed
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