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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old August 31 2013, 08:58 AM   #286
CrazyMatt
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

Makarov wrote: View Post
Sran wrote: View Post
I wish there had been an after-action scene in which Picard reminded Riker of his place.
That would be a cool scene. Has there ever been a scene in TNG where Picard reprimands Riker (aside from alien illusions / manipulations)?
Yes, in "The Pegasus." Riker, under orders from his former captain (now an admiral), refuses to answer Picard's questions regarding a mutiny aboard Riker's old ship. Picard is angered at the refusal and basically threatens Riker that he'll replace him as first officer if he decides he can no longer trust him. Eventually, Riker comes clean and regains Picard's trust.
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Old August 31 2013, 09:04 AM   #287
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

Ensign_Redshirt wrote: View Post
In the very beginning of the two-parter Riker seems to be offended that he wasn't given command of the Enterprise in Picard's absence. Or at least that's the way Nechayev interprets Riker's reaction when she breaks the news.

Maybe there was some truth to Nechayev's observation (given that Riker had already officially served as captain of the Enterprise in BOBW somewhat understandable IMO). And maybe Riker's ego was even further bruised when Jellico turned out to be a very hands-on captain who wanted to be kept in the loop over every detail, while Picard seemed to have delegated command decisions over a lot of the ship's routine operations to Riker who then acted more of a "co-captain".

It could be a "As commmander of the Enterprise I saved Earth from the Borg, but now Starfleet (and the new captain) treats me like a junior lieutenant" thing.
My take exactly. Riker's refusal to take any of the ships offered to him earlier would have also played into Starfleet's decision not to give him command for this very sensitive mission.

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
During the meeting with the Cardies where it's revealed they've captured Picard, we see why Riker would have been a bad choice to handle the negotiations: His reaction. He's too attached to Picard.
Great point... Riker doesn't seem to be able to see the forest through the trees. Again, his reaction justified the admiral's decision not to give Riker command.
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Old August 31 2013, 09:16 AM   #288
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

Had Riker been in command, he would have risked his own life to save Picard.
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Old August 31 2013, 04:57 PM   #289
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

Melakon wrote: View Post
Had Riker been in command, he would have risked his own life to save Picard.
And probably started a war.
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Old August 31 2013, 09:34 PM   #290
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

R. Star wrote: View Post
Melakon wrote: View Post
Had Riker been in command, he would have risked his own life to save Picard.
And probably started a war.
Or so embarrassed the Federation that the Cardys ended up with Minos Korva, which was their true objective.
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Old September 1 2013, 08:18 PM   #291
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

Or so embarrassed the Federation that the Cardys ended up with Minos Korva, which was their true objective.
Given the Cardassian love of Xanatos roulette this seems likely, so all in all lucky that Captain Jellico showed up and kicked there butts.
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Old September 1 2013, 11:42 PM   #292
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

I mean if Riker can't even handle a grumpy, demanding CO... how exactly is he supposed to handle a manipulative, belligerent species again? Sometimes I wonder if Starfleet boot camp is just two weeks of worker relations classes.
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Old September 2 2013, 02:47 AM   #293
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

R. Star wrote: View Post
Melakon wrote: View Post
Had Riker been in command, he would have risked his own life to save Picard.
And probably started a war.
And if the Cardassians had taken Jellico's walking out of their meeting as overly offensive or just using the capture of Picard could have led them to war, after all Jellico confirmed that Picard had been "reassigned." The ships in the nebula could have made their attack while the Gul and his ship (or was it 2?) could have kept Jellico busy enough to allow the Cardassian fleet time to take the planet. Jellico really wasn't as confident in his plan as he appeared.
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Old September 2 2013, 11:05 PM   #294
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

Vanyel wrote: View Post
Jellico really wasn't as confident in his plan as he appeared.
Of course he wasn't. He said as much about war being nearly inevitable when speaking privately with Picard

He had one shot at making this problem go away without violence & war coming of it. Everything he did was choreographed for that purpose. He was one man thrown into a frying pan with one skate. He was even prepared in advance for the possibility that Picard would fail. He knew ahead of time that there very likely would come a point he'd have to abandon Picard

This is likely the most plausible factor in why Riker was stepped on for Command of the mission. HQ would know Riker would be too close to Picard to make that call. After all, that was his gut call in BoBW too, rescue Picard. It may have worked out for everyone there, but it doesn't change the fact that his instincts are so inclined, & could not work in this scenario

Jellico may have not had unwavering faith in the plan, but he knew it was their only option & had to be played just so
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Old September 3 2013, 06:41 AM   #295
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

Mojochi wrote: View Post
This is likely the most plausible factor in why Riker was stepped on for Command of the mission. HQ would know Riker would be too close to Picard to make that call. After all, that was his gut call in BoBW too, rescue Picard. It may have worked out for everyone there, but it doesn't change the fact that his instincts are so inclined, & could not work in this scenario
Except Riker's plan really wasn't all about rescuing Picard, it was about using Picard to try to access the Borg. Riker made two command decisions that could have killed Picard: the deflector dish weapon and letting the Borg ship blow up when it was unknown if the cubes destruction would have killed Picard. And he was ready to ram the Enterprise into the cube as a last ditch effort to save the Federation.

So I tend to think that Riker could have distanced himself from Picard had he been in the center chair.
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Old September 3 2013, 08:31 AM   #296
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

Vanyel wrote: View Post
So I tend to think that Riker could have distanced himself from Picard had he been in the center chair.
He sure didn't in Chain of Command. Now I think the episode did do Riker's character a diservice, but at the same time yeah.. as portrayed, I can see why Jellico ripped into him.
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Old September 3 2013, 08:58 AM   #297
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

R. Star wrote: View Post
... as portrayed, I can see why Jellico ripped into him.
I think the producers realized they had a conundrum (no pun intended) with the character of Riker after BOBW. Here the guy saved Earth, maybe the whole Federation, and still he refuses promotion and his own ship?

The only way to make that work for any period of time was to occasionally knock him down a peg or two, and perhaps give the audience the impression that 'maybe he rose to the occasion' during the Borg incident... but that level of performance might not be the rule, but rather the exception.

In other words, maybe they wanted the audience to think that Riker's very good, occasionally great, but certainly not always great (like Picard). We see this again on several episodes, such as "The Pegasus" and "Rascals."

Even in "Generations," he manages to get the Enterprise-D destroyed! How many of you were shouting at the screen, 'How about rotating those shield frequencies, Riker!'
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Old September 3 2013, 09:09 AM   #298
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

CrazyMatt wrote: View Post

Even in "Generations," he manages to get the Enterprise-D destroyed! How many of you were shouting at the screen, 'How about rotating those shield frequencies, Riker!'
I always gave him a pass on that. For all we know they were. Who would be making those shield rotations again? Probably Geordi with his spycam.
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Old September 3 2013, 05:41 PM   #299
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

R. Star wrote: View Post
CrazyMatt wrote: View Post

Even in "Generations," he manages to get the Enterprise-D destroyed! How many of you were shouting at the screen, 'How about rotating those shield frequencies, Riker!'
I always gave him a pass on that. For all we know they were. Who would be making those shield rotations again? Probably Geordi with his spycam.
Exactly. I blame Deanna for that fiasco. Crazy women drivers.
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Old September 3 2013, 06:57 PM   #300
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

jpv2000 wrote: View Post
I blame Deanna for that fiasco. Crazy women drivers.
19 years later and I'm still irritated how that all went down.

Deanna's thought process:
"Hmm. Open space to the left, open space forward, planet to the right. I know! I'll turn right!"
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