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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old April 28 2013, 06:57 AM   #16
t_smitts
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

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I posted this on another thread, but this one's relevant so I'll put it here too:

I always thought Jellico wasn't that bad of a guy. Every time he was introduced to someone in that episode he was cordial to them for example. His command style definitely was "his way or the highway" and he was a micro manager. That's not bad, it's just different. Especially when everyone's been serving under Picard who basically gives his people all the leeway in the world so long as the job gets done.

Jellico to me seemed to put the mission before the people. Which is a very military attitude. To him they were facing the prospect of war if things went wrong. Jellico said as much to Picard and Troi. It wasn't that he didn't care about the people under his command, but he couldn't baby them at the expense of the mission. To Riker, Jellico was willing to sacrifice Picard to further the mission. He wasn't wrong. To Jellico, Picard is a small thing compared to the prospect of preventing a war, which was his mission.

Riker was insubordinate to Jellico and was increasingly so as things progressed. Jellico felt that was a danger to the mission having someone he couldn't rely upon in a critical position. So yes, when Riker crossed the line, he's relieved and Data's in the red shirt. Frankly Riker wasn't very professional in the episode at all. To me the scene between Geordi and Jellico in the shuttle was very telling. Not only did it demonstrate Jellico did attempt to bond with his people when given the chance, but that he'll put the mission ahead of personal concerns.

He did drop his pride when he asked Riker to pilot the mission. Why? His pride is a small thing to the success of the mission. I think he "dropped the ranks" and ripped into Riker, just to give Riker the chance to get all the nasty things he wanted to say to Jellico off his chest, so he'd perform the mission all the better. To say nothing about once the mission was a success and Jellico had the upper hand, he immediately demanded Picard's return. So you really can't say he didn't care about the people under his command, even if he didn't have time to pamper them so to say.

I suppose I ranted a bit on this, but he is one of my favorite characters and really did shake things up nicely on the TNG set. To me, Jellico was the professional, get the mission done, no matter the cost type of man. Just the sort of person you'd want on a high stakes mission where the threat of war is imminent. His style was different, and admittedly overbearing, but that doesn't mean it was wrong.
Agree 110% It wasn't Jellico's job to come in and be everyone's friend. (Heck, even Picard was a bit standoffish in "Farpoint", acknowledging in a later episode that he'd been a bit "miserly" in congratulating Riker on his new assignment).

He had a different way of doing things than Picard, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. This guy didn't become a captain by being a jerk or an idiot. He quite rightly expected that officers assigned to a Galaxy class ship would be the best Starfleet had to offer and held them to a high standard accordingly.

And as Star pointed out, he was willing to check his ego at the door and ask Riker for help when he needed to.

BTW, to the OP, it's CHAIN of Command, not "chains".
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Old April 28 2013, 09:05 AM   #17
Zippo and Flask
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

R. Star wrote: View Post
I suppose I ranted a bit on this, but he is one of my favorite characters and really did shake things up nicely on the TNG set. To me, Jellico was the professional, get the mission done, no matter the cost type of man. Just the sort of person you'd want on a high stakes mission where the threat of war is imminent. His style was different, and admittedly overbearing, but that doesn't mean it was wrong.
Those are all excellent points and I think provide a thoughtful assessment of the Jellico character.

I think you can summarize the command styles of these two men by their own "catch phrases".

Jellico: "Get it done."
Picard: "Make it so."
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Old April 28 2013, 05:32 PM   #18
Mysterion
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

Jellico was correct in his actions. With the exception of Data, the regular crew acted unprofessionally and childishly. Especially Riker. How he eventually got command of his own ship after having turned-down multiple previous opportunities AND acting the way he did in the episode is beyond me. If this is the way Starfleet is being run, they deserve to get their asses handed to them by the Cardassians, Borg, or whomever else goes for it.
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Old April 28 2013, 10:41 PM   #19
BillJ
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

Jellico was simply right.

He was preparing the Enterprise to go to war and didn't have time to hold anyone's hand. The crew were suppose to be professionals yet they came off as unable to show any type of flexibility. Much what many people blame Jellico for.
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Old April 28 2013, 10:52 PM   #20
SeerSGB
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

BillJ wrote: View Post
Jellico was simply right.

He was preparing the Enterprise to go to war and didn't have time to hold anyone's hand. The crew were suppose to be professionals yet they came off as unable to show any type of flexibility. Much what many people blame Jellico for.
^ This. There was a time crunch on. Plus while he was trying to talk the Cardies down, he was lieing to their faces about a covert op in their backyard. If things went south, the Enterprise was cooked and a shooting war was on. So, yeah, he sort had to be Captain Bastard cause he was juggle so many balls at once and if he or the crew dropped one, there was going to be thousands dead.
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Old April 28 2013, 10:57 PM   #21
Bry_Sinclair
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

Will needed whipped into shape. As XO, its his job to ensure that the Captain's orders are carried out--he can raise concerns and questions in private, but once the order is given he has to make sure its followed. Just because they have a clash of personalities is no excuse for acting like a spoilt child, especially with the very real prospect of war looming.

Jellico merely showed another form of command that is a bit stricter and more formal than Picard's, nothing wrong with either of them. And if it wasn't for Jellico, we'd still be suffering Troi in those awful jumpsuits.
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Old April 29 2013, 02:36 AM   #22
Dale Sams
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Jellico was simply right.

He was preparing the Enterprise to go to war and didn't have time to hold anyone's hand. The crew were suppose to be professionals yet they came off as unable to show any type of flexibility. Much what many people blame Jellico for.
^ This. There was a time crunch on. Plus while he was trying to talk the Cardies down, he was lieing to their faces about a covert op in their backyard. If things went south, the Enterprise was cooked and a shooting war was on. So, yeah, he sort had to be Captain Bastard cause he was juggle so many balls at once and if he or the crew dropped one, there was going to be thousands dead.
You all are utterly ignoring "Now I know why he didn't get his own command" REALLY? Where was the Cairo... Jellico during the Battle of Wolf 359?

And Troi: "I fear there's been some miscommunication" The empath doesn't know what the **** is going on cause Captain Smugpants is playing mindgames and keeping his crew in the dark.

The crew *are* professionals (except for when Will let devotion to Picard cloud the issue.) "It is the duty of the XO to inform the Captain when he thinks he's making a mistake"

All Jellico had to say was "Noted. Carry out my orders or I'll find someone who can" But he couldn't WAIT to get Data into the red shirt.

Jellico is a horrible communicator...but he definitely carried the day as far as how things ended. And given that he isn't commander of The Cairo when it disapeered, he probably got a fat Sovereign ship when The War broke out.
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Old April 29 2013, 02:40 AM   #23
Dale Sams
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

Mysterion wrote: View Post
Jellico was correct in his actions. With the exception of Data, the regular crew acted unprofessionally and childishly. Especially Riker. How he eventually got command of his own ship after having turned-down multiple previous opportunities AND acting the way he did in the episode is beyond me. If this is the way Starfleet is being run, they deserve to get their asses handed to them by the Cardassians, Borg, or whomever else goes for it.
Don't forget The Pegasus Incident. It's THAT IMO that really diminished the star of the Savior of Sector 001.
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Old April 29 2013, 02:50 AM   #24
BillJ
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

Dale Sams wrote: View Post

You all are utterly ignoring "Now I know why he didn't get his own command" REALLY? Where was the Cairo... Jellico during the Battle of Wolf 359?
I'm not. But something kept Riker from getting his own command after Wolf 359. After losing thirty-nine starships, Starfleet would've had little choice but to kick Riker to the captain's chair of a starship. They suffered major losses all through the Dominion War yet Riker was left in the XO spot.
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Old April 29 2013, 02:54 AM   #25
Dale Sams
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

BillJ wrote: View Post
Dale Sams wrote: View Post

You all are utterly ignoring "Now I know why he didn't get his own command" REALLY? Where was the Cairo... Jellico during the Battle of Wolf 359?
I'm not. But something kept Riker from getting his own command after Wolf 359. After losing thirty-nine starships, Starfleet would've had little choice but to kick Riker to the captain's chair of a starship. They suffered major losses all through the Dominion War yet Riker was left in the XO spot.
Yup. But we've been through this. The entire command staff should have been broken up like they were partially when Data had to take command of that one ship in that Sela episode.

The only fanwank that works is that the Enterprise-E is a touring USO ship. And it certainly appears to be given the levity of Insurrection.
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Old April 29 2013, 02:56 AM   #26
BillJ
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

Dale Sams wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Dale Sams wrote: View Post

You all are utterly ignoring "Now I know why he didn't get his own command" REALLY? Where was the Cairo... Jellico during the Battle of Wolf 359?
I'm not. But something kept Riker from getting his own command after Wolf 359. After losing thirty-nine starships, Starfleet would've had little choice but to kick Riker to the captain's chair of a starship. They suffered major losses all through the Dominion War yet Riker was left in the XO spot.
Yup. But we've been through this. The entire command staff should have been broken up like they were partially when Data had to take command of that one ship in that Sela episode.

The only fanwank that works is that the Enterprise-E is a touring USO ship. And it certainly appears to be given the levity of Insurrection.
I always though that Riker was kept around post-Best of Both Worlds to keep an eye on Picard. But, in-universe, that only works for a fairly small period of time.
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Old April 29 2013, 03:22 AM   #27
Merry Christmas
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

BillJ wrote: View Post
I always though that Riker was kept around post-Best of Both Worlds to keep an eye on Picard. But, in-universe, that only works for a fairly small period of time.
Not too small a period of time, as late as First Contact there's indications that Starfleet Admiralty did not completely trust him. And Insurrection hinted that Picard was being kept out out of combat during the Dominion War.






.

Last edited by Merry Christmas; April 29 2013 at 10:18 AM.
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Old April 29 2013, 03:45 AM   #28
Dale Sams
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

BTW...I just rewatched Redemption Part II....Denise Crosby was brilliant in that. Her best work.
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Old April 29 2013, 03:48 AM   #29
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

Dale Sams wrote: View Post
BTW...I just rewatched Birthright Part II....Denise Crosby was brilliant in that. Her best work.
You mean Unification? She isn't in Birthright...
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Old April 29 2013, 03:49 AM   #30
Dale Sams
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

SpHeRe31459 wrote: View Post
Dale Sams wrote: View Post
BTW...I just rewatched Birthright Part II....Denise Crosby was brilliant in that. Her best work.
You mean Unification? She isn't in Birthright...
Redemption...I was too slow with the edit.
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