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The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old August 9 2013, 04:33 PM   #241
USS Firefly
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

Well Picard still lives after he called Worf a coward.
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Old August 9 2013, 05:37 PM   #242
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

Use of Time wrote: View Post
R. Star wrote: View Post
Lucky for Riker that Picard was in the whole... recovering from torture mode to bother with dealing with Riker, or caring about what happened while he was gone.
Well we could also chalk that up to Jellico's professionalism. He probably considered the insubordination as something between him and Riker and declared the matter closed on his way out. Jellico obviously didn't feel the need to tattle on Riker on his way out. It was his problem and he handled it, no need to bring in Picard. Very interesting episode and probably not for the reasons the writers anticipated.
Picard did know about it, he referred to Riker being relieved of duty during the Minos Korva incident in Gambit when he was painting Riker as a deadbeat(not a hard task).
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Old August 9 2013, 09:36 PM   #243
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

Picard saw how hard Jellico was to get along with first hand, and he also saw Jellico's negative reaction to Riker, but he defended him. In that one episode the master strategist says Riker is too "jovial" in command and Picard responds that he's a fool to question Riker's abilities. I'm guessing Picard doesn't like Jellico much either.

I'm surprised at the idea that Riker should have volunteered without being asked. All his previous recommendations to Jellico got him nowhere.
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Old August 9 2013, 10:12 PM   #244
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

Makarov wrote: View Post

I'm surprised at the idea that Riker should have volunteered without being asked. All his previous recommendations to Jellico got him nowhere.
If Picard's life (not to mention preventing a war and his Starfleet oath) were really that important to him, he should've been first in line to volunteer to fly the mission. Making Jellico come to him and ask made Riker look like a selfish dick.

For me, Chain of Command was the final nail in the coffin for the character.
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Old August 9 2013, 10:37 PM   #245
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

Use of Time wrote: View Post
He probably considered the insubordination as something between him and Riker and declared the matter closed on his way out.
Agreed. The mission was a success, a mission Jellico had initially thought was doomed. Riker even came through on fulfilling a tough part of it. All's well that ends well, & leave well enough alone. What's to gain in dirtying up the guy's record? Just a lot of trouble for nothing.

Durek, wrote: View Post
Interesting that people speak of the Enterprise crew reacting negatively to Jellico's style of command with Data being the obvious exception. We never see Worf object in any way upon his return from the mission he and Dr. Crusher were on with Picard. If Worf had problem with Jellico, you bet your whatever that he'd let him know.
I give credit to Geordi too. He was irritated at first, & honestly, were I in his position, I'd probably be too. He kept it under wraps though. After all, He's maybe the best engineer in the fleet. Probably loaded with commendations. That the new captain thinks things aren't up to snuff is not easy to swallow. That he downsized his department & then heaped a workload onto them, because of the crisis, only adds to the aggravation

But by the time they're headlong into the mission, he is coming through like we expect our Geordi to come through. He's delivering the "Geordi goods" & he's relating to the guy much better & visa versa

That's how Geordi is. There's been a number of times he's butt heads with somebody, Leah Brahms, Scotty, even that Romulan, Centurian Bochra in The Enemy, just to mention a few. He always finds a way to work through it. That's why I like Geordi. He's the guy we should all aspire to be.

Troi said her piece & then kept out of the way. Worf had no problem, & neither did Data. Really, the only issues were Riker being out of control, Geordi needing to find his bearings, & Beverly having to zip it in one briefing. That's a pretty good track record for everybody involved, under the circumstances, except Riker
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Old August 9 2013, 10:46 PM   #246
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

Once Riker was out of the way, the crew stepped up and did what they were told and worked as professionals. They may not have liked it, but they keep it to themselves or in private conversations, on the clock they focused on the job.

Makes me wonder if Riker was more the problem than Jellico. More or less keeping the crew pissed off at the Captain by putting his personal opinion into the mix and being to friendly with the crew.
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Old August 9 2013, 10:58 PM   #247
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Once Riker was out of the way, the crew stepped up and did what they were told and worked as professionals. They may not have liked it, but they keep it to themselves or in private conversations, on the clock they focused on the job.

Makes me wonder if Riker was more the problem than Jellico. More or less keeping the crew pissed off at the Captain by putting his personal opinion into the mix and being to friendly with the crew.
I've been arguing about this episode for twenty years now and I've yet to see anyone put forward a good reason for Riker acting the way he did.
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Old August 9 2013, 11:13 PM   #248
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

BillJ wrote: View Post
I've been arguing about this episode for twenty years now and I've yet to see anyone put forward a good reason for Riker acting the way he did.
Me tooYou gotta give respect to an episode that can keep people debating for years on end. That's the mark of quality
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Old August 9 2013, 11:29 PM   #249
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

BillJ wrote: View Post
SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Once Riker was out of the way, the crew stepped up and did what they were told and worked as professionals. They may not have liked it, but they keep it to themselves or in private conversations, on the clock they focused on the job.

Makes me wonder if Riker was more the problem than Jellico. More or less keeping the crew pissed off at the Captain by putting his personal opinion into the mix and being to friendly with the crew.
I've been arguing about this episode for twenty years now and I've yet to see anyone put forward a good reason for Riker acting the way he did.
That would seem simple: Jealous, mad that he got passed over for Jellico. He viewed Enterprise as "his ship" and figured that Jellico had not right to be in charge just because Starfleet put him there.
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Old August 10 2013, 03:24 AM   #250
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

^ Those are all bad reasons. lol
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Old August 10 2013, 03:30 AM   #251
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

Riker's insubordination was crazy, it's the reason why I can't grade this two parter highly. It was like his first day on duty.
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Old August 10 2013, 03:41 AM   #252
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

Dream wrote: View Post
Riker's insubordination was crazy, it's the reason why I can't grade this two parter highly. It was like his first day on duty.
I guess I can sort of see why someone might feel that way, but personally, I don't see it falling completely out of the realm of possibility for him. He's always been something of an egotistical, pompous windbag, & once he gets his mind set, he's often quite stubborn. A slip up like this might be possible if he let it get away from him, which he clearly did
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Old August 10 2013, 03:43 AM   #253
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

Basically just cements Riker's behavior of being a jerk to everyone outside the command clique that he'd not actively trying to seduce.
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Old August 10 2013, 03:46 AM   #254
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

If there is anything to say it's out of character for him, it's certainly not as out of character as "Movie Action Hero Picard" was relative to conservative tv series Picard
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Old August 10 2013, 01:59 PM   #255
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

Its not that out of character for Riker, he has a habit of sulking when things don't go his way. Look at his reaction to Troi's potential marriage or his treatment of Shelby and of Ro, and in the Outcast he ignore the prime directive and goes on an unofficial rescue mission.
If you watch Frakes performance he has a habit of looking irritated with people very quickly, often with very little reason.

As to the insubordination, once the mission was over I suspect that Jellico was happy to let the matter drop. notice that Riker is in uniform on the bridge when Picard resumes command which Jellico did not have to allow ( In fact given that Picard presumably needed a couple of days to recover from his ordeal and that Data is at Ops he may even have reinstated Riker as first officer).
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