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The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old August 13 2013, 07:40 PM   #721
DJ Mike
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Scotty wrote: View Post
How do you know it was TNG and not the thousands of hours of playing Call of Duty that killed your PS3?
Sadly barely any games ever touched my PS3 - almost entirely Blu-ray usage.

Maxwell Everett wrote: View Post
Believe it or not, that happened to me too... when I was watching a S3 disc, back in April. I have a FAT PS3 and I got the so-called YLOD (yellow light of death). But I successfully repaired it myself. What's happened is that either the cell processor or the GPU (or both) have become partially un-soldered from the motherboard. What you need to do is reflow the chips. All you need is a heat gun (about $20-$30), some silver thermal paste ($10) and a little bit of courage.
I did see the stuff about heatgunning my PS3. Requires a LOT of time to do though - and now that I have a replacement Super Slim, I'm not sure I'm that likely to bother. We shall see, though!
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Old August 13 2013, 09:05 PM   #722
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Picked up the set today. Though I haven't had time to watch any of it yet.
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Old August 13 2013, 11:04 PM   #723
Trekker4747
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Borjis wrote: View Post
I love that part in Devil's Due when she turns into that Devil. AWESOME makeup work.

And when Worf blurt's out: YOU are NOT Fek'lhr!

That actress was hot stuff! (pun intended)
Fek'lhr sounds like the Klingon word for "poop."
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Old August 13 2013, 11:55 PM   #724
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Kang said there is no Klingon devil. Dang continuity!
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Old August 14 2013, 12:53 AM   #725
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

jimbotron wrote: View Post
Kang said there is no Klingon devil. Dang continuity!
There could still not-be depending on what you think "a devil" is and what Fek'lhr represents.

In Christian theology the devil is a fallen angel who rules over Hell, a dominion for souls who've forsaken a Christian God in favor of something else, or have failed to make-up for their sins depending on how you want to look at getting into Heaven. (Faith, or being without/forgiven of sin.)

So in that case, since the Klingons "killed" all of their Gods in favor of simply honor and glory they likely have no concept of a place in the afterlife ruled by gods, fallen angels or is a place of paradise. Instead if you have honor then you go to Stovokhor if you don't you go to the Barge of the Dead. Fek'lhr simply rules over that/the honorless-equivilant of Stovokhor.

So he's not a "devil" in the sense that he represents a fallen angel, the opposite of God and rules over "bad" souls but he does represent the ruler of those who die without honor. That may not be seen as "a" devil possibly in the same way Kahless is neither a deity or a savior (at least in the same way Jesus is.)
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Old August 14 2013, 01:16 AM   #726
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

IIRC, the word "fek'lhr" means "demon" in the Klingon language.
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Old August 14 2013, 01:27 AM   #727
Hober Mallow
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
jimbotron wrote: View Post
Kang said there is no Klingon devil. Dang continuity!
There could still not-be depending on what you think "a devil" is and what Fek'lhr represents.

In Christian theology the devil is a fallen angel who rules over Hell, a dominion for souls who've forsaken a Christian God in favor of something else, or have failed to make-up for their sins depending on how you want to look at getting into Heaven. (Faith, or being without/forgiven of sin.)

So in that case, since the Klingons "killed" all of their Gods in favor of simply honor and glory they likely have no concept of a place in the afterlife ruled by gods, fallen angels or is a place of paradise. Instead if you have honor then you go to Stovokhor if you don't you go to the Barge of the Dead. Fek'lhr simply rules over that/the honorless-equivilant of Stovokhor.

So he's not a "devil" in the sense that he represents a fallen angel, the opposite of God and rules over "bad" souls but he does represent the ruler of those who die without honor. That may not be seen as "a" devil possibly in the same way Kahless is neither a deity or a savior (at least in the same way Jesus is.)
Zoroastrianism started the whole dual good god/bad god myth based on the insight of duality which has continued with later Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. Most world religions that have ever existed have to do with the transcendence of duality. That's one thing that bothers me about this episode, is that it takes for granted a universal Judeo-Christian view of all religion, when that's really a deviant tradition.

Even early Judaism didn't have a devil, and the devil is all but absent from the Old Testament. No one went to heaven, except the rare special person who's taken alive to heaven to "walk with God." Most people who died went to Sheol, a Hebrew underworld like the Greek Tartarus.
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Old August 14 2013, 04:38 AM   #728
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
Zoroastrianism started the whole dual good god/bad god myth based on the insight of duality which has continued with later Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. Most world religions that have ever existed have to do with the transcendence of duality. That's one thing that bothers me about this episode, is that it takes for granted a universal Judeo-Christian view of all religion, when that's really a deviant tradition.
You say that most world religions are dualistic with good and evil opposites (and I agree it does seem to be a recurring theme), but then you say you're bothered that the episode takes for granted a universal Judeo-Christian view of all religion. However, as presented in "Devil's Due," the Ventaxian myth of Ardra makes no mention of a good rival who opposes her.
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Old August 14 2013, 03:31 PM   #729
Hober Mallow
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Maxwell Everett wrote: View Post
You say that most world religions are dualistic with good and evil opposites (and I agree it does seem to be a recurring theme), but then you say you're bothered that the episode takes for granted a universal Judeo-Christian view of all religion.
No, what I was saying is that most religions are not that way. It's when religions become ethical in nature that they focus on good vs. evil, and it started -- as far as anyone can tell -- with Zoroastianism. It continued with the western religions like Christianity, Islam, and Judaism. East of Persia, religions have to do with putting you in accord with the world as it is. Good and evil may be recognized, but they're both two aspects of the same thing, they both come from the same mystery source, and, for that matter, they are both subjective.

However, as presented in "Devil's Due," the Ventaxian myth of Ardra makes no mention of a good rival who opposes her.
Perhaps there is a good version of Ardra, but she's actually another incarnation of the same deity. The goddess in many parts of the world is both creator and destroyer. The goddess represents the creative principle of the world, imminent divinity (God is in all things) as opposed to the god, who often represents transcendent divinity (God is somewhere else, and you're duty it to relate to God). It's possible Ardra is the negative aspect of the goddess, who could be represented as the planet itself. (That would have been an interesting argument for Picard to try to rebut: "You don't understand, Picard, she isn't entitled to the planet -- she is the planet!")
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Old August 14 2013, 03:34 PM   #730
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Is the opening shot in The Host, a CGI Enterprise???

I am glad they lost the headpieces for the Trill on DS9 and went with the spots instead.

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Old August 14 2013, 05:36 PM   #731
jimbotron
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

cbspock wrote: View Post
Is the opening shot in The Host, a CGI Enterprise???
Yup, it's CGI. That shot can be seen littered throughout season 4, though strangely not in the CBS-D episodes. Those ones used the blurry model shot.
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Old August 14 2013, 05:57 PM   #732
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

The effects in In Theory look great


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Old August 14 2013, 06:21 PM   #733
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
No, what I was saying is that most religions are not that way.
Sorry, I read what you wrote as, "transcendence to duality" and not, as you actually wrote, "transcendence of duality." Apologies!

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
Perhaps there is a good version of Ardra, but she's actually another incarnation of the same deity. The goddess in many parts of the world is both creator and destroyer.
That's possible. But you recognize that even if this were the case, that it is still quite a different beast than the traditional Judeo-Christian view of religion. That sounds more like the Hindu god Shiva. So either way (bad Ardra only or Ardra as creator/destroyer) the episode diverges from a dualistic, good vs. evil Judeo-Christian view of religion.
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Last edited by Maxwell Everett; August 14 2013 at 07:31 PM. Reason: Responed to your second point
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Old August 14 2013, 06:34 PM   #734
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

The Art department feature is interesting. Love the discussions on DS9, about how the designs influence each aspect of the sets, the displays, etc.


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Old August 14 2013, 07:25 PM   #735
Hober Mallow
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Maxwell Everett wrote: View Post
Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
No, what I was saying is that most religions are not that way.
Sorry, I read what you wrote as, "transcendence to duality" and not, as you actually wrote, "transcendence of duality." Apologies!
No worries.
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