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Old April 23 2013, 06:20 AM   #16
T J
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Re: If Kirk were the Emissary...

Kirk would have shown the prettiest Prophet how linear sex is!

Janeway would have would have powered up the
jellyfish-like space creature with coffee.

Picard would have installed Klang as the new chancellor high council.

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Old April 23 2013, 06:36 AM   #17
JirinPanthosa
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Re: If Kirk were the Emissary...

Kirk would convince the Bajorans that the Prophets must be destroyed.
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Old April 23 2013, 06:39 AM   #18
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Re: If Kirk were the Emissary...

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
R. Star wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
I think Sisko had more respect for the Bajoran religion than Kirk (or, for that matter, any other Trek captain) would have had. So Kirk-as-Emissary would have been a disaster, IMHO.
I dunno, Picard always seemed to have a huge respect for the Bajoran people. Definitely more than Sisko in season 1 of DS9.
The PEOPLE, yes. But Picard would have been more dismissive of the Bajoran faith. (ref. "Who Watches The Watchers?") Sisko would not do that.
Who Watches The Watchers is not a good exmaple of Picard being dismissive of faith. That example is a straight up misinterpretation, and the only thing Sisko would have done differently is not let Leland arrow him through the chest.

Also being powerful does not make you divine, it's not dismissive of faith to call them 'Wormhole aliens'. I'm not sure Sisko ever really accepted them as Gods, he just accepted their vision of his future. He always just saw them as very powerful and wise beings.
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Old April 23 2013, 01:39 PM   #19
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Re: If Kirk were the Emissary...

JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
Who Watches The Watchers is not a good exmaple of Picard being dismissive of faith. That example is a straight up misinterpretation, and the only thing Sisko would have done differently is not let Leland arrow him through the chest.
It's not a misinterpretation, and he most definitely is being dismissive of faith.

Specifically, Picard says, "Doctor Barron, your report describes how rational these people are. Millennia ago, they abandoned their belief in the supernatural. Now you are asking me to sabotage that achievement, to send them back into the Dark Ages of superstition and ignorance and fear? No!"

He's not just talking about the idea of them going down to the planet pretending to be gods. He clearly states that rational people abandon their belief in the supernatural. He calls their lack of belief in the supernatural an achievement. There is no other way to interpret that than Picard being absolutely dismissive of religious faith.

Sisko would not have made those statements.
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Old April 26 2013, 06:39 AM   #20
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Re: If Kirk were the Emissary...

CoveTom wrote: View Post
JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
Who Watches The Watchers is not a good exmaple of Picard being dismissive of faith. That example is a straight up misinterpretation, and the only thing Sisko would have done differently is not let Leland arrow him through the chest.
It's not a misinterpretation, and he most definitely is being dismissive of faith.

Specifically, Picard says, "Doctor Barron, your report describes how rational these people are. Millennia ago, they abandoned their belief in the supernatural. Now you are asking me to sabotage that achievement, to send them back into the Dark Ages of superstition and ignorance and fear? No!"

He's not just talking about the idea of them going down to the planet pretending to be gods. He clearly states that rational people abandon their belief in the supernatural. He calls their lack of belief in the supernatural an achievement. There is no other way to interpret that than Picard being absolutely dismissive of religious faith.

Sisko would not have made those statements.
Well said, CoveTom. +1
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Old April 26 2013, 09:14 AM   #21
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Re: If Kirk were the Emissary...

CoveTom wrote: View Post
It's not a misinterpretation, and he most definitely is being dismissive of faith.
But not faith in general. Picard himself previously stated that he believes (there's that word) that the spirit survives the demise of the flesh. That he would personally and intellectually continue in some fashion after his own death.

Picard says, "Doctor Barron, your report describes how rational these people are. Millennia ago, they abandoned their belief in the supernatural. Now you are asking me to sabotage that achievement, to send them back into the Dark Ages of superstition and ignorance and fear?
And this is the important part, Picard is specifically referring to Barron's report, the content of it. The result of the Mintakan's previous belief was "ignorance and fear."

Picard: "... the Enterprise crew currently includes representatives from thirteen planets. They each have their individual beliefs and values and I respect them all."

It's is absolutely impossible to imagine the multicultural Picard as being generally dismissive towards all faiths. To the Mintakan's specific previous beliefs perhaps. But not all faiths, beliefs and religions.

Picard: "... and I respect them all

He clearly states that rational people abandon their belief in the supernatural.
Actually, Picard never does this, Picard (no doubt) considers himself to be a "rational" person, and again he does have his own beliefs.

Consider, we know that the first of the series of Prophet's orbs arrived on Bajor when the Bajorian people were already a civilized society with some technological. A culture of reasonable, sensible and sane people ... rational. This is the culture that came to worship the Prophets. The worship of the Prophets did not result in general "ignorance and fear." The Bajorian instead were a peaceful, artistic and religious people.

There is simply no way that Picard personally would be "absolutely dismissive" of the Bajorian religious faith, something that is so integral to who they are.

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