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Old April 25 2013, 03:24 PM   #76
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Re: Grammar Nazi Thread: Smooshing Words Together

Sector 7 wrote: View Post
Having been a writer and author for much of my life, as well as a substitute English teacher, the devolution of the English language is a pet peeve of mine. Much of this phenomenon comes from a lack of proper education and laziness.

I was taught to speak and write proper English aka "the King's English". Ebonics, street slang and such are abhorrent to me.
Wow. You do know that Ebonics is a dialect, and not slang, don't you? It has a consistent grammatical structure similar to West African Languages and is, in every respect, equal to Standard English as a language. In fact, in many regards, AAVE (African American Vernacular English, the technical name for Ebonics), is more efficient than Standard English, and more "evolved", at least in the sense that it's grammatical structure has greater complexity, clarity, and utility than does that of Standard English.

As for the "devolution" of the language, your complaint seems to be over a matter of taste (you find AAVE and slang distasteful, it seems), not language. Unless you can actually define this apparent devolution without relying on opinion -- can you do that?
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Old April 25 2013, 06:07 PM   #77
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Re: Grammar Nazi Thread: Smooshing Words Together

Headed for perdition in the handcart of people who believe language expands to fit the human experience; and am usually delighted, or at least midly entertained when new words are coined, purloined and portmanteau(ed) to describe a new thing.
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Old April 25 2013, 06:17 PM   #78
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Re: Grammar Nazi Thread: Smooshing Words Together

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Old April 25 2013, 06:33 PM   #79
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Re: Grammar Nazi Thread: Smooshing Words Together

Beautifully said! Not surprising, either, coming from Fry. I do disagree on one point, however; there is indeed a group who consistently innovate, create, and revel in the beauty of language: rappers. Of course, most of them rap in ebonics which, as we've seen in this thread, people tend to dismiss as uneducated, slangy, or otherwise somehow "less" than Standard English. Though I very much doubt that any one of those doing the dismissing could play so adeptly and skillfully with words as a good rap artist.
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Old April 25 2013, 06:41 PM   #80
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Re: Grammar Nazi Thread: Smooshing Words Together

thestrangequark wrote: View Post
I do disagree on one point, however; there is indeed a group who consistently innovate, create, and revel in the beauty of language: rappers.
I don't think you disagree: Fry's point is that very few of those who claim to be "guardians of language" actually revel in its beauty. Rappers don't make such claims and they certainly don't spend their time obsessing about apostrophes. I do believe that Stephen Fry would agree with you.
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Old April 25 2013, 07:25 PM   #81
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Re: Grammar Nazi Thread: Smooshing Words Together

The Mirrorball Man wrote: View Post
thestrangequark wrote: View Post
I do disagree on one point, however; there is indeed a group who consistently innovate, create, and revel in the beauty of language: rappers.
I don't think you disagree: Fry's point is that very few of those who claim to be "guardians of language" actually revel in its beauty. Rappers don't make such claims and they certainly don't spend their time obsessing about apostrophes. I do believe that Stephen Fry would agree with you.
This is true.

I do love the way he plays with language. His books are a joy to read because of that. Like Wodehouse, but with lots of raunchy sex.
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Old April 26 2013, 05:05 AM   #82
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Re: Grammar Nazi Thread: Smooshing Words Together

lvsxy808 wrote: View Post
And yes, I did read this through eight times before posting.
I must admit that I do this, too. I read my completed post, then go back and re-write and edit, then post, then do it all over again. This is as much from my OCD as from my "Grammar Nazi" training. [I hate the word Nazi and wish there was another term for it. My Jewish blood boils at anything Nazi.]
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Old April 26 2013, 05:40 AM   #83
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Re: Grammar Nazi Thread: Smooshing Words Together

Sector 7 wrote: View Post
. . . I read my completed post, then go back and re-write and edit, then post, then do it all over again. This is as much from my OCD as from my "Grammar Nazi" training. [I hate the word Nazi and wish there was another term for it. My Jewish blood boils at anything Nazi.]
Will "Grammar Inquisitor" do? (I seem to be on a Spanish Inquisition kick lately.)
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Old April 26 2013, 06:00 AM   #84
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Re: Grammar Nazi Thread: Smooshing Words Together

scotpens wrote: View Post
Sector 7 wrote: View Post
. . . I read my completed post, then go back and re-write and edit, then post, then do it all over again. This is as much from my OCD as from my "Grammar Nazi" training. [I hate the word Nazi and wish there was another term for it. My Jewish blood boils at anything Nazi.]
Will "Grammar Inquisitor" do? (I seem to be on a Spanish Inquisition kick lately.)
No, we need a Trek version... Grammar High Commissioner? Never mind, that sounds awful.
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Old April 26 2013, 07:01 AM   #85
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Re: Grammar Nazi Thread: Smooshing Words Together

lvsxy808 wrote: View Post
Look at the trouble anyone has had trying to come with a simple gender-neutral pronoun (the current attempt is "yo").
Current attempt by whom? If it's something that's being attempted over in the UK, I don't think that would be too successful on this side of the pond, mostly because of the large number of Spanish speakers here. "Yo" is the Spanish word for the pronoun "I".
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Old April 26 2013, 08:01 AM   #86
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Re: Grammar Nazi Thread: Smooshing Words Together

Yo? Oh for fuck's sake just use "he" or "they". I, for one, say no thanks to having our eminently creative urban rhythmic poets dictating the course of the language...
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Old April 26 2013, 08:18 AM   #87
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Re: Grammar Nazi Thread: Smooshing Words Together

Sector 7 wrote: View Post
I must admit that I do this, too. I read my completed post, then go back and re-write and edit, then post, then do it all over again. This is as much from my OCD as from my "Grammar Nazi" training. [I hate the word Nazi and wish there was another term for it. My Jewish blood boils at anything Nazi.]
I agree that it's not a nice term. I'm not Jewish so that's not it (although I am gay, and the Nazis weren't overly fond of the gays either), but I just don't like such a negative word being applied to people who actually just want to stick to the rules and do things correctly.


B.J. wrote: View Post
lvsxy808 wrote: View Post
Look at the trouble anyone has had trying to come with a simple gender-neutral pronoun (the current attempt is "yo").
Current attempt by whom? If it's something that's being attempted over in the UK, I don't think that would be too successful on this side of the pond, mostly because of the large number of Spanish speakers here. "Yo" is the Spanish word for the pronoun "I".
I know, but it's an experiment by school kids in Maryland, apparently.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/bryantpark/..._a_gend_1.html
http://americanspeech.dukejournals.o...3/262.abstract

I don't think it will ever catch on, and I agree that the single generic "they" is fine. But, they're trying.

.
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Old April 26 2013, 08:59 AM   #88
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Re: Grammar Nazi Thread: Smooshing Words Together

Sector 7 wrote: View Post
scotpens wrote: View Post
Sector 7 wrote: View Post
. . . I read my completed post, then go back and re-write and edit, then post, then do it all over again. This is as much from my OCD as from my "Grammar Nazi" training. [I hate the word Nazi and wish there was another term for it. My Jewish blood boils at anything Nazi.]
Will "Grammar Inquisitor" do? (I seem to be on a Spanish Inquisition kick lately.)
No, we need a Trek version... Grammar High Commissioner? Never mind, that sounds awful.

Well assuming it doesn't have to be a UFP position how about Grammer Prefect?
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Old April 26 2013, 09:15 AM   #89
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Re: Grammar Nazi Thread: Smooshing Words Together

Stephen Fry wrote:
“Language is my whore, my mistress, my wife, my pen-friend, my check-out girl. Language is a complimentary moist lemon-scented cleansing square or handy freshen-up wipette. Language is the breath of God, the dew on a fresh apple, it’s the soft rain of dust that falls into a shaft of morning sun when you pull from an old bookshelf a forgotten volume of erotic diaries; language is the faint scent of urine on a pair of boxer shorts, it’s a half-remembered childhood birthday party, a creak on the stair, a spluttering match held to a frosted pane, the warm wet, trusting touch of a leaking nappy, the hulk of a charred Panzer, the underside of a granite boulder, the first downy growth on the upper lip of a Mediterranean girl, cobwebs long since overrun by an old Wellington boot.”
Grammar Police/Cops works as well as Nazi for me.
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Old April 27 2013, 02:07 AM   #90
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Re: Grammar Nazi Thread: Smooshing Words Together

lvsxy808 wrote: View Post
Sector 7 wrote: View Post
I must admit that I do this, too. I read my completed post, then go back and re-write and edit, then post, then do it all over again. This is as much from my OCD as from my "Grammar Nazi" training. [I hate the word Nazi and wish there was another term for it. My Jewish blood boils at anything Nazi.]
I agree that it's not a nice term. I'm not Jewish so that's not it (although I am gay, and the Nazis weren't overly fond of the gays either), but I just don't like such a negative word being applied to people who actually just want to stick to the rules and do things correctly.
I am Christian by choice, Jewish by ancestry and gay by birth. That makes the term triply offensive to me.

How about Section 31, Grammar Division? Nah, too long.
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