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Old April 26 2013, 09:07 PM   #31
Ancient Mariner
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Re: Lost as an one-season miniseries

degra wrote: View Post
the reason I kept watching it was because the writers said they learned from the xfiles and twin peaks and they wouldn't let their mythology turn into a mess the way those shows did,,,that's also why I analyzed it but I was misled.
degra wrote: View Post
That's why I don't even bother with lostesque shows like game of thrones, invasion, revolution, zero hour, v, flash forward, the event, daybreak, vanished etc. They rely on gimmicks instead of good storytelling.
Then I'd say you were watching it for the wrong reasons. You weren't alone, mind you. And you, like many others, were encouraged to do so. So I don't blame you for feeling let down. But right from the start, what sold me on LOST were its character explorations. They heavy investment in character from the early episodes kept me interested even when the series was inexplicably lurching from one plot twist to the next. As such, I enjoyed the tail-section seasons, most of the side quests and, especially, the finale. That isn't to say I wasn't interested in the mysteries, or that I was completely satisfied with the answers provided. But all that was secondary to my enjoyment of the series. So when it comes to other LOST-esque shows, I'd say: watch the first few episodes and see if the characters grab you. If they do, then there's still value to the show - even if the plot isn't fully satisfying.
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Old April 26 2013, 10:37 PM   #32
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Re: Lost as an one-season miniseries

Game Of Thrones is as far from "lostesque" as it can possibly be.

I did watch Invasion, FlashForward and Event though. Invasion was pretty cool, the rest were just silly ... Now, I don't watch those shows anymore. Shows that are made by inventing stuff on the spot are not my thing anymore.

The characters on LOST were good (well, most of them), but when the entire show is built on mystery upon mystery until the mysteries overshadowed everything else, you kind of expect those mysteries to be answered. When the show ended with "fuck the mysteries, it was about characters all along" explanation and with that stupid cave plug bullshit, I understood that I wasted time on something that was never intended to be resolved or was ever supposed to make sense.
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Old April 26 2013, 11:46 PM   #33
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Re: Lost as an one-season miniseries

Ugh. The loose threads.

The worst were the ones the writers threw out there with no intention of answering. Why did the statue have four toes?
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Old April 26 2013, 11:55 PM   #34
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Re: Lost as an one-season miniseries

Okay, that was an unexplained one! The ancient four toed Egyptian society.
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Old April 27 2013, 02:18 AM   #35
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Re: Lost as an one-season miniseries

Seriously, though, who's enjoyment of the series was critically dependent upon knowledge of the four-toed statue? Or any single mystery? I mean, for example, we found out how the Black Rock got where it was ... but did that knowledge really matter? Weren't the relationships of Penny-Desmond; Jack-Kate; Sawyer-Elizabeth; Linus-himself ... far more compelling?

Damn ... this thread is actually inspiring me to rewatch the series.
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Old April 27 2013, 03:44 AM   #36
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Re: Lost as an one-season miniseries

Samuel Walters wrote: View Post
Then I'd say you were watching it for the wrong reason weren't alone, mind you. And you, like many others, were encouraged to do so. So I don't blame you for feeling let down. But right from the start, what sold me on LOST were its character explorations. They heavy investment in character from the early episodes kept me interested even when the series was inexplicably lurching from one plot twist to the next. As such, I enjoyed the tail-section seasons, most of the side quests and, especially, the finale. That isn't to say I wasn't interested in the mysteries, or that I was completely satisfied with the answers provided. But all that was secondary to my enjoyment of the series. So when it comes to other LOST-esque shows, I'd say: watch the first few episodes and see if the characters grab you. If they do, then there's still value to the show - even if the plot isn't fully satisfying.
the characters were alright but they became increasingly just plot devices, exposition providers and action figures. Plot became primary. But even if I focus on the character portion of the show I really wasn't that impressed,,,Kate had to have been one of the most annoying characters, the stupid love triangle that just dragged on, I wasn't a big fan of desmond and pennys romance.

a lot of characters were introduced but they were plot devices,,,Ana Lucia, Cindy, widmore, the red headed scientist, Jeff faheys pilot character, Jacob, mib, Hurley was annoying. Even in season one the way the show explored the characters felt more academic than a natural exploration.

really the mysteries for me were the most intriguing aspect of the show. And if the writers didn't want to burden the show then they didn't need to introduce a huge mythology. Shows got by without them for decades relying instead on leaner parallel standalone season long arcs that could easily be followed and understood without one hour recap specials two or three times a year or a Wikipedia.

lost was an interesting experiment but one in hindsight was a misfire. I have pretty much come to the realization that modern storytelling isn't my thing. I just don't like the format. Shows these days just can't balance things like other writers could in the past. Nowadays things are too fast paced and plotladen or they are too slow and their approach comes across as too pretentious going out of their way to create unlikeable characters. And shows are poorly edited requiring podcasts to explain things, scenes are too brief to allow for onscreen dramatization that used to be onscreen not leaving fans to fill in the blanks, casts are too large, seasons are too uneven,,an all around lack of not only consistency in quality within a seadon but even within a given episode causing them to be a mixed bag. And the shows have to cover so much ground servicing so many plotlines and characters they don't even give you a chance to anticipate the next move or appreciate or digest a scene or an action sequence. Angst and love triangles/quadrangles seem to be all the rage. Yawn. Producers ferl like they have to kill off characters each season as some sort of backlash against the dsys when character deaths were few. the problem is the character deaths usually happen to characters nobody cares about ir with so little fanfare that it doesn't generate any shock or emotional resonance. I didn't use to have to settle on strong characters but weak plotting or week casts and decent storytelling. I got both. That's why I pretty much only watch pre 2000 tv shoes and films and music.

Last edited by degra; April 27 2013 at 04:08 AM.
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Old April 27 2013, 04:11 AM   #37
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Re: Lost as an one-season miniseries

They could do it if you took out all the "What?"s.



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Old April 27 2013, 12:52 PM   #38
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Re: Lost as an one-season miniseries

degra wrote: View Post
the characters were alright but they became increasingly just plot devices, exposition providers and action figures. Plot became primary. But even if I focus on the character portion of the show I really wasn't that impressed,,,Kate had to have been one of the most annoying characters, the stupid love triangle that just dragged on, I wasn't a big fan of desmond and pennys romance.

a lot of characters were introduced but they were plot devices,,,Ana Lucia, Cindy, widmore, the red headed scientist, Jeff faheys pilot character, Jacob, mib, Hurley was annoying. Even in season one the way the show explored the characters felt more academic than a natural exploration.
Sounds like your problem was more with the characters than anything else. If you didn't like Hurley, Kate, Penny, Desmond ... if you couldn't see characters like Ana Lucia and Eko as experiments in, well, character ... then yeah, the show ... any show ... is going to be empty.

degra wrote: View Post
lost was an interesting experiment but one in hindsight was a misfire. I have pretty much come to the realization that modern storytelling isn't my thing.
LOST wasn't perfect, that's for sure. But considering how much the series deliberately invested in character and made that investment its primary payoff in the finale, the dizzying plot twists were at least grounded in that investment ... Perhaps it wasn't so much a "misfire" as it was a show whose style didn't suit your tastes.
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Old April 27 2013, 01:57 PM   #39
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Re: Lost as an one-season miniseries

tighr wrote: View Post
Ugh. The loose threads.

The worst were the ones the writers threw out there with no intention of answering. Why did the statue have four toes?
I like that there are things on the island that we never learned about it. The place has clearly existed for a long time, and the LOST characters only take up a tiny part of it. Do you know every little bit of history about your own town?
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Old April 27 2013, 02:54 PM   #40
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Re: Lost as an one-season miniseries

To be fair, Ana-Lucia and Libby and Eko were supposed to around longer but they were prematurely written off for drunk driving / actor problems
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Old April 27 2013, 10:31 PM   #41
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Re: Lost as an one-season miniseries

Mr Light wrote: View Post
To be fair, Ana-Lucia and Libby and Eko were supposed to around longer but they were prematurely written off for drunk driving / actor problems
The Eko actor just wanted to leave in season three so he was hastily written out.

We did get Desmond and Ben so at least season two wasn't a complete waste of time.
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Old April 27 2013, 11:29 PM   #42
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Re: Lost as an one-season miniseries

RoJoHen wrote: View Post
I like that there are things on the island that we never learned about it. The place has clearly existed for a long time, and the LOST characters only take up a tiny part of it. Do you know every little bit of history about your own town?
Samuel Walters wrote: View Post
Seriously, though, who's enjoyment of the series was critically dependent upon knowledge of the four-toed statue? Or any single mystery?
That's not the point. The point is that above all else, LOST is still a dramatic story. And in storytelling, you simply do not introduce plot elements that are ultimately unrelated or never referred to again. It's called a Chekhov's Gun. It's evidence of bad writing.

I would have been unconcerned with the statue if it had the requisite 5 toes. The statue is later shown in flashbacks, and is where Locke kills Jacob. Sufficient foreshadowing. But by deliberately taking time out of the plot to have Sayid point out that it only has four toes? You better be prepared to explain later why it was important enough to mention.
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Old April 27 2013, 11:56 PM   #43
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Re: Lost as an one-season miniseries

tighr wrote: View Post
Samuel Walters wrote: View Post
Seriously, though, who's enjoyment of the series was critically dependent upon knowledge of the four-toed statue? Or any single mystery?
That's not the point. The point is that above all else, LOST is still a dramatic story. And in storytelling, you simply do not introduce plot elements that are ultimately unrelated or never referred to again. It's called a Chekhov's Gun. It's evidence of bad writing.

I would have been unconcerned with the statue if it had the requisite 5 toes. The statue is later shown in flashbacks, and is where Locke kills Jacob. Sufficient foreshadowing. But by deliberately taking time out of the plot to have Sayid point out that it only has four toes? You better be prepared to explain later why it was important enough to mention.
So ... creatively interesting settings can be on-screen so long as the characters never acknowledge them? Perhaps four toes was introduced purely for atmosphere and mood. Maybe it was a red herring. Or maybe it's just not worth obsessing about years later since it was never a central, integral element of the overall story to begin with.
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Old April 28 2013, 01:27 AM   #44
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Re: Lost as an one-season miniseries

the cabin, Kelvin, the smoke monster, the emergency hatch, the glyphs, the temple, the magic water, sayids zombie condition, sequence if numbers to be input, the statue, ilanas past with Jacob, why the others dressed up, miles ability, the wheel, etc were nothing more than a series of macguffins. Now it is clear the writers just saw them as kewl high concepts,,,mere passing ideas,,,not something to use, develop or explore further in any interesting or dramatic way. Sadly that seems to be a trend,,,writers cramming a billion ideas and teasers into a series and leaving them by the wayside rather than choosing a few and taking the time to develop them. I guess they just don't have the writing skills of their predecessors who realized quality over excess is much better.

seems like poor writing to introduce all these mysteries and have the characters draw attention to them making a big deal about it then not do anything with it. Usually when you point something out it will be addressed or play a role in things to come. Season two was particularly bad about it.
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Old April 28 2013, 02:40 AM   #45
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Re: Lost as an one-season miniseries

degra wrote: View Post
Now it is clear the writers just saw them as kewl high concepts.
So did, apparently, some of the audience. Heck, I thought they were all fun additions (except maybe zombie Sayid). But the main emphasis at the beginning (and while admittedly there were some missteps, continuing all the way through the finale) was character.

And Season Two is a perfect example of the series playing to theme and character above all else (Man of Science v. Man of Faith). If anything (for Season Two, at least) plot was sacrificed in the name of character.
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