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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
A+ 144 19.30%
A 161 21.58%
A- 101 13.54%
B+ 82 10.99%
B 58 7.77%
B- 27 3.62%
C+ 40 5.36%
C 38 5.09%
C- 25 3.35%
D+ 11 1.47%
D 13 1.74%
D- 10 1.34%
F 36 4.83%
Voters: 746. You may not vote on this poll

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Old July 25 2014, 02:23 AM   #5071
Set Harth
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

BuckBokai wrote: View Post
So, when I saw it in theaters I really loved it. I had some issues with it but I left the theatre entertained. Since then I've re watched it twice and I've liked it less each time. My favorite thing about Star Trek is rewatch ability. You can see episodes of the show many times and get more things out of it each time. Even Star Trek (2009), I've enjoyed when rewatching, but STID I just haven't enjoyed as much. Its a great popcorn movie but it lacks the core of what makes Star Trek a one of a kind franchise. I just wish I could better articulate what that is exactly..
For me it improved on first rewatch. Second was probably pretty much the same, I don't really remember. One thing that grew on me was the music, which I recall not being very enthused by in the theater. The thing about rewatches is that the Khan damage has already been done; you know what's coming and that softens the blow a bit. Not completely, but noticeably. In the theater I remember not liking anything at all about the reactor room sequence cribbed from TWOK, but on home video I actually liked the Kirk in the reactor part. Still don't particularly like the scream but it's not that big a deal. Also I think I liked the Khan-Spock fight a bit more on rewatch. This might have something to do with the fact that set photos from this fight were some of the earliest things leaked so it all ended up kind of spoilery as to how it was going to turn out.
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Old July 25 2014, 06:56 AM   #5072
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
xavier wrote: View Post
That scene from the 1982 film is iconic and the most popular scene in trek, it should not be touched...ever...again.
It's not iconic--not even in the Alanis Morissette. Wait. That's ironic. Eh. You know what I mean.

Even still, it's not even the most recognized or familiar scene in Star Trek. That's be the Gorn fight. Perhaps "Risk is our business!"
It's funny to me how if something was so well done it should never be done again when it comes to a movie. I mean, TWOK is iconic so we cannot rehash that story again.

Except, Star Trek did-twice before ID came along. Star Trek First Contact had a similar style revenge plot, with the personal grudge against a classic villain, and even a guttural scream. Throw in some Shakespeare and look what you got!

Similarly, but with less success, Star Trek Nemesis attempted it with a revenge plot, but it failed due to a lack of a convincing villain who had a point.

The idea that TWOK is iconic and can't be touched does not work because Trek often revisits ideas from its past.

Besides, it's not as if iconic scenes have not been replicated before from other works. TWOK itself borrows from classic literature, specifically Shakespeare (there's the Bard again). I mean, what if someone delivered the best possible Hamlet performance ever, unsurpassed in terms of quality, actors, production value-it all just worked. Would we then say, "Please, no more Hamlet. It's too iconic."?

I know it is not a direct parallel, and to quote Heinlein, analogy is always suspect, but my point is still there. Just because it is iconic, doesn't mean it can't be revisited.
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Old July 25 2014, 07:31 AM   #5073
Melakon
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

We'll know Star Trek has crossed the line if Picard ever says, "Wesley, I am your father."
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Old July 29 2014, 11:37 PM   #5074
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

French bastard probably was.
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Old July 31 2014, 06:56 PM   #5075
Agent Richard07
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Enterprise lifted a scene or two right from TWOK when they did those episodes with the augments.
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Old July 31 2014, 08:36 PM   #5076
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Agent Richard07 wrote: View Post
Enterprise lifted a scene or two right from TWOK when they did those episodes with the augments.
I've pointed that out before and people pretty much ignored it.
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Old July 31 2014, 08:37 PM   #5077
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

That's because people pretty much ignored Enterprise.
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Old July 31 2014, 09:24 PM   #5078
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Personally, I enjoyed Enterprise.
My two favorite arcs are the Mirror universe two parter and the augments story.
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Old July 31 2014, 10:08 PM   #5079
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
That's because people pretty much ignored Enterprise.
Really, I'm sure both people who watched "Augments" enjoyed the callbacks.
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Old July 31 2014, 10:12 PM   #5080
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

In some ways, it seems that all eras of Trek has some form of "Wrath of Khan".
TNG had it twice....one a bit more successful than the other.

But I always regarded the augments story as Enterprise's "Wrath of Khan".
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Old July 31 2014, 10:42 PM   #5081
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

BigJake wrote: View Post
CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
That's because people pretty much ignored Enterprise.
Really, I'm sure both people who watched "Augments" enjoyed the callbacks.
I watch the episodes and enjoyed them and the callbacks. I think callbacks are part of the fun.
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Old July 31 2014, 10:45 PM   #5082
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

BigJake wrote: View Post
CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
That's because people pretty much ignored Enterprise.
Really, I'm sure both people who watched "Augments" enjoyed the callbacks.
I'd wager a month's pay that far more people watched the "Augments" than seriously dislike the Abrams films.
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Old July 31 2014, 10:47 PM   #5083
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

You do that.

BillJ wrote:
I watch the episodes and enjoyed them and the callbacks.
Honestly, I'm not knocking them. I hear tell they were better than the bulk of the series and part of Manny Coto's close brush with rescuing it.
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Old August 3 2014, 12:19 AM   #5084
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

BillJ wrote: View Post
BigJake wrote: View Post
CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
That's because people pretty much ignored Enterprise.
Really, I'm sure both people who watched "Augments" enjoyed the callbacks.
I watch the episodes and enjoyed them and the callbacks. I think callbacks are part of the fun.
I think what separates the two is that "The Augments" is distant enough to be referred to as a call back, whereas STID really goes out of its way to replicate the same beats of that situation with the same TOS characters (albeit reversed).
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Old August 3 2014, 12:48 AM   #5085
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

MakeshiftPython wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
BigJake wrote: View Post

Really, I'm sure both people who watched "Augments" enjoyed the callbacks.
I watch the episodes and enjoyed them and the callbacks. I think callbacks are part of the fun.
I think what separates the two is that "The Augments" is distant enough to be referred to as a call back, whereas STID really goes out of its way to replicate the same beats of that situation with the same TOS characters (albeit reversed).
The end scenes on the Bird-of-Prey are pretty reminiscent of the end scenes on the Reliant.

Heck... this is what is in the transcript of the episode:

{Klingon Bridge]

(an injured Malik crawls over dead bodies to the rear console, hauls himself up and ... well, this is a very familiar scene, but without the Moby Dick dialogue)
http://www.chakoteya.net/Enterprise/82.htm



I think it's more about whether one likes the Abrams films or not. If you like them, you'll tend to cut the reuse some slack. If you don't, then it's just one more mark against the creative team. YMMV.
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