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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
A+ 144 19.20%
A 161 21.47%
A- 101 13.47%
B+ 83 11.07%
B 59 7.87%
B- 27 3.60%
C+ 40 5.33%
C 38 5.07%
C- 25 3.33%
D+ 11 1.47%
D 13 1.73%
D- 10 1.33%
F 38 5.07%
Voters: 750. You may not vote on this poll

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Old April 9 2014, 05:41 AM   #5011
BigKrampus
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Phily B wrote: View Post
I mean it was way better than 2009, but as I said earlier, for whatever reason, I saw this movie less and don't enjoy it as much?
ST09 was apparently an exciting novelty for a lot of people, and an Event Movie in much the same way TMP was. If you look at the original Grading and Discussion thread for that movie, you can see a lot of people talking about rewatching it in the theatre in successive sessions in classic mega-fannish style. (I've never been able to do that; but some people certainly rock it out.)

STID was a revisiting of a formula that a lot of those early viewers naively thought it would abandon, because they believed the reboot was going to be about telling new stories. It's funny, because given its eventual financial success and what superficially appears to have been its critical success, STID should have been AbramsTrek's triumphant victory lap. And yet in point of fact, if it had relied on the domestic market like its predecessor it would have flopped, and it's common to hear the word "disappointing" and "misfire" used to describe it even in allegedly positive reviews.

It's not because STID committed any sins that ST09 didn't commit. They're both basically dumb, bad but fun-if-you-don't-look-too-closely action movies, two and a half-star fare at best and questionably at home in the Trek license at all (depending on your priorities). Take my Trekfan hat off and I can still enjoy the Spock "KHAAAAN!" scream for its sheer silliness. But on the curiously-somewhat-underwhelmed domestic market, STID suffers from a) no longer being an overhyped novelty, and b) having had pretensions far above the actual quality of its content. Putting the movie in the same frame as TWOK was hubris pure and simple, because it just reminds a lot of people of how much better the classic movie was and how relatively brainless -- even when half-assing sophistication -- the reboot franchise is.
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Old April 9 2014, 07:20 AM   #5012
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

BigJake wrote: View Post
Phily B wrote: View Post
I mean it was way better than 2009, but as I said earlier, for whatever reason, I saw this movie less and don't enjoy it as much?
ST09 was apparently an exciting novelty for a lot of people, and an Event Movie in much the same way TMP was. If you look at the original Grading and Discussion thread for that movie, you can see a lot of people talking about rewatching it in the theatre in successive sessions in classic mega-fannish style. (I've never been able to do that; but some people certainly rock it out.)

STID was a revisiting of a formula that a lot of those early viewers naively thought it would abandon, because they believed the reboot was going to be about telling new stories. It's funny, because given its eventual financial success and what superficially appears to have been its critical success, STID should have been AbramsTrek's triumphant victory lap. And yet in point of fact, if it had relied on the domestic market like its predecessor it would have flopped, and it's common to hear the word "disappointing" and "misfire" used to describe it even in allegedly positive reviews.

It's not because STID committed any sins that ST09 didn't commit. They're both basically dumb, bad but fun-if-you-don't-look-too-closely action movies, two and a half-star fare at best and questionably at home in the Trek license at all (depending on your priorities). Take my Trekfan hat off and I can still enjoy the Spock "KHAAAAN!" scream for its sheer silliness. But on the curiously-somewhat-underwhelmed domestic market, STID suffers from a) no longer being an overhyped novelty, and b) having had pretensions far above the actual quality of its content. Putting the movie in the same frame as TWOK was hubris pure and simple, because it just reminds a lot of people of how much better the classic movie was and how relatively brainless -- even when half-assing sophistication -- the reboot franchise is.
Nope. Next?
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Old April 9 2014, 08:47 AM   #5013
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Devon wrote: View Post
Nope. Next?
How adorable. Pity I wasn't talking to you.
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Old April 9 2014, 10:11 AM   #5014
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

That a third movie is assured, giving fans of the first two exactly what they want, pretty much negates attempts to paint Into Darkness as a failure.

Set Harth wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote:
The Enterprise was parked on the Federation/Klingon border
Which appears to be practically on Kronos' doorstep, since you can see Kronos in the distance when the Mudd ship leaves the Enterprise.
I'm pretty sure that's the planetoid where Carol and McCoy defuse the bomb, not Kronos.
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Old April 9 2014, 10:41 AM   #5015
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

BigJake wrote: View Post
ST09 was apparently an exciting novelty for a lot of people, and an Event Movie in much the same way TMP was. If you look at the original Grading and Discussion thread for that movie, you can see a lot of people talking about rewatching it in the theatre in successive sessions in classic mega-fannish style. (I've never been able to do that; but some people certainly rock it out.)

STID was a revisiting of a formula that a lot of those early viewers naively thought it would abandon, because they believed the reboot was going to be about telling new stories. It's funny, because given its eventual financial success and what superficially appears to have been its critical success, STID should have been AbramsTrek's triumphant victory lap. And yet in point of fact, if it had relied on the domestic market like its predecessor it would have flopped, and it's common to hear the word "disappointing" and "misfire" used to describe it even in allegedly positive reviews.

It's not because STID committed any sins that ST09 didn't commit. They're both basically dumb, bad but fun-if-you-don't-look-too-closely action movies, two and a half-star fare at best and questionably at home in the Trek license at all (depending on your priorities). Take my Trekfan hat off and I can still enjoy the Spock "KHAAAAN!" scream for its sheer silliness. But on the curiously-somewhat-underwhelmed domestic market, STID suffers from a) no longer being an overhyped novelty, and b) having had pretensions far above the actual quality of its content. Putting the movie in the same frame as TWOK was hubris pure and simple, because it just reminds a lot of people of how much better the classic movie was and how relatively brainless -- even when half-assing sophistication -- the reboot franchise is.
Don't be like that. Respect, man. Come on. You know good and well the film has been a critical and commercial success. You don't have to like it, but don't pretend it didn't do well by all accounts.

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
I'm pretty sure that's the planetoid where Carol and McCoy defuse the bomb, not Kronos.
There does appear to be a tiny planet in the distance when they leave in the Mudd ship, but I'm not certain that we're looking at Kronos in that shot. The next scene is a cutaway transition to the ship entering Kronos' atmosphere, so it's open to interpretation. This is about the 45 minute mark.
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Old April 9 2014, 12:13 PM   #5016
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Khan, Tribbles, Klingons ... all of the ingredients known to general audiences are in this picture. I'm not at all surprised at Abrams using them. The problem is, what's left that the public would be aware of? The Gorn, I suspect. I'm not really sure, but I think everything the public knew about STAR TREK has already been trotted out. That said, my only gripe and grievance was the obscene under-use of Alice Eve. Carol Marcus is obviously being set up for the next movie, with little thought devoted to her beyond that. As delicious a babe as Alice is and as important as Carol Marcus turned out to be for the "prime" universe, I find her being downplayed very distracting in this movie. Although her dropping her drawers for no reason did compensate, some. Love me some eye candy, as do we all.

Oh! Uhura's bitching to Spock about their relationship was not a plus for me, because I don't really give a shit about their relationship. In fact, if it were not for the relationship, Uhura would've, undoubtedly, been left in the background, just as Nichelle Nichols' Uhura had. And I just find it weak, honestly, that this was the only way Abrams could figure to give her something meatier to do. It's embarassing. Khan's motives behind most everything he does in this movie are appropriate, even understandable. The movie still succeeds at being entertaining popcorn fare, which is all it was ever striving for, it seems. So, I grade this movie a solid "B+," with a point taken off for its treatment of Carol Marcus. Even if I were ignorant of who that character was, I'd still be like, "they should be doing more stuff with that hot blonde." Otherwise, I'm looking forward to STAR TREK 3!
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Old April 9 2014, 05:56 PM   #5017
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

J. Allen wrote: View Post
Don't be like that. Respect, man.
My opinions aren't news at this point, are they?

(EDIT: Looking at it in retrospect, the comment about people being naive probably sounds like I was mocking the fans, which wasn't my intent, I was actually trying to poke fun at the lack of aspiration at the studio. Sorry if that came across badly.)

You know good and well the film has been a critical and commercial success.
Dude asked why he saw and enjoyed STID less. I think there's a larger context for why many people in the domestic market seem to feel that way and I said so. If you're reading what I wrote you will note that I did not say it wasn't commercially successful -- just that it's been noticeably less enthusiastically received and critically overrated than its predecessor, and that its domestic box was down. Both of which are in point of fact true.

And I'm not making up what I said about the curiously muted character of even ostensibly positive reviews, either. It's pretty commonplace, with just a random search I could give you two dozen examples right now. And that's something I wonder about and strikes me as a bit weird, because that shouldn't be something you notice in the coverage of a movie that was an unqualified critical success. Right? Least I don't think so, it's not the kind of thing I remember running across in "positive" reviews for movies with 80%+ Rotten Tomatoes scores before.

So, I'm curious about stuff like that, and I talk about it. And life goes on.
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Old April 9 2014, 06:23 PM   #5018
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

My only thing I did not like about STID was that Khan was played by Benedict Cumberbatch, who then proceeded to confuse strong emotion with over enunciating all his lines during the "big dramatic" scenes.
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Old April 9 2014, 06:24 PM   #5019
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

He was literally chewing the scenery. I've never seen someone talk like that, I found it hilarious. Which was, well, pretty bad for the character.
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Old April 9 2014, 07:00 PM   #5020
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Jedi_Master wrote: View Post
My only thing I did not like about STID was that Khan was played by Benedict Cumberbatch, who then proceeded to confuse strong emotion with over enunciating all his lines during the "big dramatic" scenes.
Pretty funny directorial decision there; the "no ship should go down withooouuutt heerrrrr caaaaptaaiin" line made me burst out laughing, someone must have thought that would evoke Montalban or something? Cumberbatch was actually quite entertaining when he was just being bad-ass, though.
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Old April 9 2014, 07:06 PM   #5021
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

BigJake wrote: View Post
Jedi_Master wrote: View Post
My only thing I did not like about STID was that Khan was played by Benedict Cumberbatch, who then proceeded to confuse strong emotion with over enunciating all his lines during the "big dramatic" scenes.
Pretty funny directorial decision there; the "no ship should go down withooouuutt heerrrrr caaaaptaaiin" line made me burst out laughing, someone must have thought that would evoke Montalban or something? Cumberbatch was actually quite entertaining when he was just being bad-ass, though.
God, his scenery chewing was awful. The problem was is that the best scenes he had was when he was silent, and any half way decent "beefcake" actor could have handled those scenes.
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Old April 9 2014, 07:18 PM   #5022
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

BigJake wrote: View Post
J. Allen wrote: View Post
Don't be like that. Respect, man.
My opinions aren't news at this point, are they?

You know good and well the film has been a critical and commercial success.
Dude asked why he saw and enjoyed STID less. I think there's a larger context for why many people in the domestic market seem to feel that way and I said so. If you're reading what I wrote you will note that I did not say it wasn't commercially successful -- just that it's been noticeably less enthusiastically received and critically overrated than its predecessor, and that its domestic box was down. Both of which are in point of fact true.

And I'm not making up what I said about the curiously muted character of even ostensibly positive reviews, either. It's pretty commonplace, with just a random search I could give you two dozen examples right now. And that's something I wonder about and strikes me as a bit weird, because that shouldn't be something you notice in the coverage of a movie that was an unqualified critical success. Right? Least I don't think so, it's not the kind of thing I remember running across in "positive" reviews for movies with 80%+ Rotten Tomatoes scores before.

So, I'm curious about stuff like that, and I talk about it. And life goes on.
What you find "unusual" is rather more commonplace than you think. Do some reading of reviews for other blockbusters with quite high ratings. And, in the end, those reviewers still gave a positive grade--that should tell you something (something that clashes a bit with your thesis). Sometimes your emphasis on the "muted" nature of the positive reviews resembles the post-election analysis of pundits who are unhappy with the election results but refuse to acknowledge the degree to which the option they did not favour was actually popular with others (if you can read French, there are numerous examples in the Quebec political press in the wake of last Monday's debacle for the outgoing government).

I don't think any serious film critic has suggested the Trek movies are in the same league as Casablanca or the first two Godfather films or Lawrence of Arabia in terms of being all-time cinematic classics that will likely never be forgotten. But I don't think they're quite as pessimistic about them as you believe--you're reading something into their commentary that isn't as pronounced as you think.
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Old April 9 2014, 09:28 PM   #5023
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Ovation wrote: View Post
What you find "unusual" is rather more commonplace than you think.
That's entirely possible, no doubt some more systematic comparison is in order.
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Old April 9 2014, 10:02 PM   #5024
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Oh hei, J. -- spiff-tastic new avatar, by the way.
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Old April 10 2014, 12:07 AM   #5025
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
That a third movie is assured, giving fans of the first two exactly what they want, pretty much negates attempts to paint Into Darkness as a failure.

And they've stated the emphasis for Star Trek 3 will again be growth in foreign markets, which means the financial analyses of angry fanboys continue to evade their concern.




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