RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 141,351
Posts: 5,502,820
Members: 25,121
Currently online: 679
Newest member: MsMarrielle

TrekToday headlines

IDW Publishing March 2015 Comics
By: T'Bonz on Dec 17

Paramount Star Trek 3 Expectations
By: T'Bonz on Dec 17

Star Trek #39 Sneak Peek
By: T'Bonz on Dec 16

Star Trek 3 Potential Director Shortlist
By: T'Bonz on Dec 16

Official Starships Collection Update
By: T'Bonz on Dec 15

Retro Review: Prodigal Daughter
By: Michelle on Dec 13

Sindicate Lager To Debut In The US Next Week
By: T'Bonz on Dec 12

Rumor Mill: Saldana Gives Birth
By: T'Bonz on Dec 12

New Line of Anovos Enterprise Uniforms
By: T'Bonz on Dec 11

Frakes: Sign Me Up!
By: T'Bonz on Dec 11


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
A+ 144 19.20%
A 161 21.47%
A- 101 13.47%
B+ 83 11.07%
B 59 7.87%
B- 27 3.60%
C+ 40 5.33%
C 38 5.07%
C- 25 3.33%
D+ 11 1.47%
D 13 1.73%
D- 10 1.33%
F 38 5.07%
Voters: 750. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old March 2 2014, 12:01 PM   #4951
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

HaventGotALife wrote: View Post

God, the more I watch it the worse it gets. It doesn't tell an interesting tale; this is becoming a dystopia.
Then you might want to quit watching. I know I don't like "Spock's Brain" and "Threshold", so I don't revisit them so I can complain about them.
__________________
"...the most elementary and valuable statement in science, the beginning of wisdom, is I do not know." - Lt. Commander Data, "Where Silence Has Lease"
BillJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 2 2014, 12:22 PM   #4952
Tosk
Rear Admiral
 
Tosk's Avatar
 
Location: On the run.
Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

J. Allen wrote: View Post
By the way, as a feminist myself, I can honestly say that Uhura's character has never been stronger, than in these movies. I am rather surprised that you do not see that.
Being a feminist doesn't mean that your opinion on the handling of nuUhura is more relevant than Havent's. To state that she is stronger and then tell him he just can't see it seems a bit imperious.

I'm not saying she is or isn't, just that both opinions can be correct.
Tosk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 2 2014, 12:27 PM   #4953
2takesfrakes
Commodore
 
2takesfrakes's Avatar
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

My only complaint about this movie? It needed more Alice Eve. A lot more Alice Eve ...
__________________
"― And she brought forth her firstborn Son, and wrapped Him in swaddling clothes, and laid Him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn." (Luke 2:7)
2takesfrakes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 2 2014, 11:38 PM   #4954
Santa Claus
Believe
 
Santa Claus's Avatar
 
Location: J. Allen's Rooftop
Send a message via ICQ to Santa Claus Send a message via AIM to Santa Claus Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to Santa Claus Send a message via Yahoo to Santa Claus
Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Tosk wrote: View Post
J. Allen wrote: View Post
By the way, as a feminist myself, I can honestly say that Uhura's character has never been stronger, than in these movies. I am rather surprised that you do not see that.
Being a feminist doesn't mean that your opinion on the handling of nuUhura is more relevant than Havent's. To state that she is stronger and then tell him he just can't see it seems a bit imperious.

I'm not saying she is or isn't, just that both opinions can be correct.
In this case, that's the point I'm making. He uses his feminism as a point that the movie is terrible. My comment is to show that his feminism isn't the only feminism, and some of us see her actions as empowerment rather than submission.
__________________
---------
"I believe... I believe... It's silly, but I believe." - Susan Walker
---------
❄ A Joyful Holiday Season to You All! ❄

Santa Claus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old March 3 2014, 02:27 AM   #4955
HaventGotALife
Fleet Captain
 
HaventGotALife's Avatar
 
Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

J. Allen wrote: View Post
Tosk wrote: View Post
J. Allen wrote: View Post
By the way, as a feminist myself, I can honestly say that Uhura's character has never been stronger, than in these movies. I am rather surprised that you do not see that.
Being a feminist doesn't mean that your opinion on the handling of nuUhura is more relevant than Havent's. To state that she is stronger and then tell him he just can't see it seems a bit imperious.

I'm not saying she is or isn't, just that both opinions can be correct.
In this case, that's the point I'm making. He uses his feminism as a point that the movie is terrible. My comment is to show that his feminism isn't the only feminism, and some of us see her actions as empowerment rather than submission.
I have a question for you: does she have one scene that doesn't have to do with her relationship to Spock? She starts off in the turbolift talking about Pike's death and ends up telling Kirk that she's frustrated with Spock. She tells Kirk to tell Spock that his cold fusion device detonated, yet she takes off the earpiece and throws it because she's mad at Spock. She broods and doesn't confront him. They are going into enemy territory and she is so distracted she has to get out her feelings instead of choosing a more appropriate time. She's not focused on the mission, and it almost gets them killed. And in terms of writing, all she does is let Spock express his feelings. She fails to convince the Klingons and needs someone else to save her.

In the last movie, every time Spock left the bridge, there's Uhura running to the turbolift, looking in his direction. It bothered me, but her ability to tell Romulan languages apart, she decodes the Klingon message that led to Kirk saving the day--she had things to do--she belonged on the bridge.

Did Sulu or Chekov act so unprofessionally? Sulu gets some badass lines in this one, telling Spock off and he tells Harrison they are coming after him. Chekov works with Scotty to come up with a plan to save the Enterprise. She has more lines in this movie than the original character, but she doesn't do anything that shows she is competent to be on the bridge.

BillJ wrote: View Post
HaventGotALife wrote: View Post

God, the more I watch it the worse it gets. It doesn't tell an interesting tale; this is becoming a dystopia.
Then you might want to quit watching. I know I don't like "Spock's Brain" and "Threshold", so I don't revisit them so I can complain about them.
That was not my intention. My intention was to see what I missed upon my original viewing because my memory isn't perfect. I have seen it a sum total of 4 times.
__________________
"Cogley was old-fashioned, preferring paper books to computers. He had an extensive collection of books, he claimed never to use the computer in his office."

Last edited by HaventGotALife; March 3 2014 at 03:19 AM.
HaventGotALife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 3 2014, 04:07 AM   #4956
Cookies and Cake
Admiral
 
Location: North America
Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

HaventGotALife wrote: View Post
J. Allen wrote: View Post
Tosk wrote: View Post
Being a feminist doesn't mean that your opinion on the handling of nuUhura is more relevant than Havent's. To state that she is stronger and then tell him he just can't see it seems a bit imperious.

I'm not saying she is or isn't, just that both opinions can be correct.
In this case, that's the point I'm making. He uses his feminism as a point that the movie is terrible. My comment is to show that his feminism isn't the only feminism, and some of us see her actions as empowerment rather than submission.
I have a question for you: does she have one scene that doesn't have to do with her relationship to Spock?
Does going out alone to talk to the Klingons count as one such scene? I think it does.

She fails to convince the Klingons and needs someone else to save her.
Kirk died so thoroughly that he had to be brought back to life by someone else. Pike bought the farm, and Spock almost kicked the bucket in the teaser. Before Kirk died, he got demoted and lost his command. Scotty got fired. Marcus got his head squished. There's quite a bit of failure to go around in this film, and I'm not sure how all the failure is being heaped on the shoulders of Uhura or the female characters.

If Uhura's not getting the spotlight, it's probably because she wasn't one of the main characters on the original show, either.
__________________
CorporalCaptain
Cookies and Cake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 3 2014, 04:16 AM   #4957
HaventGotALife
Fleet Captain
 
HaventGotALife's Avatar
 
Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
HaventGotALife wrote: View Post
J. Allen wrote: View Post

In this case, that's the point I'm making. He uses his feminism as a point that the movie is terrible. My comment is to show that his feminism isn't the only feminism, and some of us see her actions as empowerment rather than submission.
I have a question for you: does she have one scene that doesn't have to do with her relationship to Spock?
Does going out alone to talk to the Klingons count as one such scene? I think it does.

She fails to convince the Klingons and needs someone else to save her.
Kirk died so thoroughly that he had to be brought back to life by someone else. Pike bought the farm, and Spock almost kicked the bucket in the teaser. Before Kirk died, he got demoted and lost his command. Scotty got fired. Marcus got his head squished. There's quite a bit of failure to go around in this film, and I'm not sure how all the failure is being heaped on the shoulders of Uhura or the female characters.

If Uhura's not getting the spotlight, it's probably because she wasn't one of the main characters on the original show, either.
She's not focused on the mission, and it almost gets them killed. And in terms of writing, all she does is let Spock express his feelings. She fails to convince the Klingons and needs someone else to save her.
They wouldn't be in that situation without her conversation with Spock.
__________________
"Cogley was old-fashioned, preferring paper books to computers. He had an extensive collection of books, he claimed never to use the computer in his office."
HaventGotALife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 3 2014, 04:37 AM   #4958
Cookies and Cake
Admiral
 
Location: North America
Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

HaventGotALife wrote: View Post
CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
HaventGotALife wrote: View Post

I have a question for you: does she have one scene that doesn't have to do with her relationship to Spock?
Does going out alone to talk to the Klingons count as one such scene? I think it does.

Kirk died so thoroughly that he had to be brought back to life by someone else. Pike bought the farm, and Spock almost kicked the bucket in the teaser. Before Kirk died, he got demoted and lost his command. Scotty got fired. Marcus got his head squished. There's quite a bit of failure to go around in this film, and I'm not sure how all the failure is being heaped on the shoulders of Uhura or the female characters.

If Uhura's not getting the spotlight, it's probably because she wasn't one of the main characters on the original show, either.
She's not focused on the mission, and it almost gets them killed. And in terms of writing, all she does is let Spock express his feelings. She fails to convince the Klingons and needs someone else to save her.
They wouldn't be in that situation without her conversation with Spock.
Wait, what???? You're saying that because Uhura's mind is on her relationship with Spock, that she botches the conversation with the Klingons????
__________________
CorporalCaptain
Cookies and Cake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 3 2014, 04:59 AM   #4959
HaventGotALife
Fleet Captain
 
HaventGotALife's Avatar
 
Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
HaventGotALife wrote: View Post
CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
Does going out alone to talk to the Klingons count as one such scene? I think it does.

Kirk died so thoroughly that he had to be brought back to life by someone else. Pike bought the farm, and Spock almost kicked the bucket in the teaser. Before Kirk died, he got demoted and lost his command. Scotty got fired. Marcus got his head squished. There's quite a bit of failure to go around in this film, and I'm not sure how all the failure is being heaped on the shoulders of Uhura or the female characters.

If Uhura's not getting the spotlight, it's probably because she wasn't one of the main characters on the original show, either.
She's not focused on the mission, and it almost gets them killed. And in terms of writing, all she does is let Spock express his feelings. She fails to convince the Klingons and needs someone else to save her.
They wouldn't be in that situation without her conversation with Spock.
Wait, what???? You're saying that because Uhura's mind is on her relationship with Spock, that she botches the conversation with the Klingons????
No, the conversation with Spock leads to them being attacked without warning. They wouldn't have been caught off-guard if the relationship wasn't the only thing on her mind.
__________________
"Cogley was old-fashioned, preferring paper books to computers. He had an extensive collection of books, he claimed never to use the computer in his office."
HaventGotALife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 3 2014, 05:05 AM   #4960
Tosk
Rear Admiral
 
Tosk's Avatar
 
Location: On the run.
Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

J. Allen wrote: View Post
In this case, that's the point I'm making. He uses his feminism as a point that the movie is terrible.
Gah, you're right. I totally missed that. I apologize for my post.
Tosk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 3 2014, 05:15 AM   #4961
Hartzilla2007
Vice Admiral
 
Hartzilla2007's Avatar
 
Location: Star Trekkin Across the universe.
Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

J. Allen wrote: View Post
Tosk wrote: View Post
J. Allen wrote: View Post
By the way, as a feminist myself, I can honestly say that Uhura's character has never been stronger, than in these movies. I am rather surprised that you do not see that.
Being a feminist doesn't mean that your opinion on the handling of nuUhura is more relevant than Havent's. To state that she is stronger and then tell him he just can't see it seems a bit imperious.

I'm not saying she is or isn't, just that both opinions can be correct.
In this case, that's the point I'm making. He uses his feminism as a point that the movie is terrible. My comment is to show that his feminism isn't the only feminism, and some of us see her actions as empowerment rather than submission.
Plus it's kind of hard to see Uhura as weak in a movie where she stabs a Klingon in the nads*.

*No it wasn't his leg as last I checked Klingons have there legs in the same place as humans and she stabbed the general area where a males private parts are located.
Hartzilla2007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 3 2014, 07:22 AM   #4962
Santa Claus
Believe
 
Santa Claus's Avatar
 
Location: J. Allen's Rooftop
Send a message via ICQ to Santa Claus Send a message via AIM to Santa Claus Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to Santa Claus Send a message via Yahoo to Santa Claus
Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

HaventGotALife wrote: View Post
I have a question for you: does she have one scene that doesn't have to do with her relationship to Spock?
Yes; Her scene with the Klingons, and the scene where Kirk is dying at the end. Of course, her relationship doesn't maker her submissive, she's an equal, so I'm not sure why her relationship with Spock somehow denotes that she's less than the person she is because she has a loved one in close proximity to her.

She starts off in the turbolift talking about Pike's death and ends up telling Kirk that she's frustrated with Spock. She tells Kirk to tell Spock that his cold fusion device detonated, yet she takes off the earpiece and throws it because she's mad at Spock.
Yes, we call these emotions. Humans have them. Note that Kirk also talks about Spock. Are they having a lover's quarrel as well? Or is it that they both know something's wrong with their mutual friend?

She broods and doesn't confront him.
Hold on, there. She does. According to the dialogue, she has tried to confront him on the issue a number of times. It's Spock who won't discuss it.

They are going into enemy territory and she is so distracted she has to get out her feelings instead of choosing a more appropriate time. She's not focused on the mission, and it almost gets them killed.
You're interpreting a scene by which you are misremembering. The reason she was speaking to Spock at that moment was because he seemed to have a death wish. He was refusing to discuss it with her. Keep in mind that even though Jim Kirk first asked whether they were going to discuss it there, even he opened up a few moments later agreeing with her, so it was on his mind as well. Between the two of them, Spock finally opened up about it, and he continued the discussion. You're laying the blame on Uhura, when they were all losing focus. Why should she get the blame when they all share in it?

Keep in mind that even professionals have lapses of judgment. This is nothing new. Our heroes aren't perfect automatons who always make the right choices. If anything, STID is a great example of our heroes making wrong choices, and having to own up to them. Spock and Uhura's conflict fits into the overall theme of the film.

And in terms of writing, all she does is let Spock express his feelings. She fails to convince the Klingons and needs someone else to save her.
Apparently there are scenes of the movie of which I am not aware, because at no time do I see Spock as the reason she is about to be stabbed. Let's not blame the victim for the aggressor's actions, please. The Klingon was going to kill her anyway. What she did was buy time, and she did a damned good job of being strong and independent when she walked right up to a group of aggressive, violent Klingons who had no qualms about ending a human life. She was courageous, if anything.

If that Klingon would have had honor, she would have been fine, so let's not ignore that either.

In the last movie, every time Spock left the bridge, there's Uhura running to the turbolift, looking in his direction. It bothered me, but her ability to tell Romulan languages apart, she decodes the Klingon message that led to Kirk saving the day--she had things to do--she belonged on the bridge.

Did Sulu or Chekov act so unprofessionally? Sulu gets some badass lines in this one, telling Spock off and he tells Harrison they are coming after him. Chekov works with Scotty to come up with a plan to save the Enterprise. She has more lines in this movie than the original character, but she doesn't do anything that shows she is competent to be on the bridge.
James T. Kirk.
Spock.

These two men were more unprofessional than the rest of the crew combined. Why the hate on for Uhura? Seriously, you're laying blame at her feet that simply does not belong there. You seem to get upset at her for being human. It's as if you've never seen human beings react to stress, or watch as a loved one was put right in death's path.

It's almost like you're afraid Uhura can't cry, worry, or have fear, because it will make her look weak. Guess what? Kirk cries, worries, and has fears. Spock cries, worries, and has fears. Why can't Uhura? What makes her different that she can't fear for her lover? He certainly fears for her, and even says so. He cries for his best friend, and goes to get revenge. Professional? We still talking about that? Eh?

Cut Uhura some slack. She's not perfect. She's a human being, with human frailties. Just because she's a woman doesn't mean she has to be super strong all the time. She's allowed to cry, too.

Tosk wrote: View Post
J. Allen wrote: View Post
In this case, that's the point I'm making. He uses his feminism as a point that the movie is terrible.
Gah, you're right. I totally missed that. I apologize for my post.
No need for an apology!

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
Plus it's kind of hard to see Uhura as weak in a movie where she stabs a Klingon in the nads*.

*No it wasn't his leg as last I checked Klingons have there legs in the same place as humans and she stabbed the general area where a males private parts are located.
She has good aim!
__________________
---------
"I believe... I believe... It's silly, but I believe." - Susan Walker
---------
❄ A Joyful Holiday Season to You All! ❄

Santa Claus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old March 3 2014, 01:29 PM   #4963
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

HaventGotALife wrote: View Post

No, the conversation with Spock leads to them being attacked without warning. They wouldn't have been caught off-guard if the relationship wasn't the only thing on her mind.
I really think you're reaching for something to complain about.
__________________
"...the most elementary and valuable statement in science, the beginning of wisdom, is I do not know." - Lt. Commander Data, "Where Silence Has Lease"
BillJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 3 2014, 10:11 PM   #4964
Ovation
Vice Admiral
 
Location: La Belle Province or The Green Mountain State (depends on the day of the week)
Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

BillJ wrote: View Post
HaventGotALife wrote: View Post

No, the conversation with Spock leads to them being attacked without warning. They wouldn't have been caught off-guard if the relationship wasn't the only thing on her mind.
I really think you're reaching for something to complain about.
x10

Uhura is, at best, a secondary character (tertiary is often equally appropriate). That's it. That's all she has been and, really, that's all she ever NEEDS to be for Star Trek. Can a good Trek story be told where she is the primary character? Sure. That can be done for any of the characters. But it should never be expected, let alone required. Star Trek (no : followed by an acronym) has two lead characters, two secondary characters, three secondary/tertiary characters and scores of minor/incidental characters. It was not conceived as an "ensemble piece" and while it can be written that way, it seems a lot more forced than when done in the :TNG, etc. versions. And when TNG went to movies, the ensemble format began to crumble (though, to me, that often felt as forced as the reverse with TOS).

As such, in a film franchise, the non-leads are rather limited in the scope they can occupy. In a series, there would be a lot more room for non-lead characters to shine and gain in importance. In order for that to change, they'd have to go with a LOTR model and have a gigantic story spread over three very long films to give room to everyone to have a meatier role--I wouldn't hold my breath (a return to TV with a new set of actors is far more likely, relatively speaking--I don't see that happening anytime soon either).

Is Uhura the strongest female character on film in the past year? Hardly. Is this fact a catastrophic setback for women's rights and feminism as an ideology? No. It is simply a film where the two leads are male, all the female characters are supporting characters of varying importance and, well, c'est la vie.
Ovation is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 3 2014, 10:36 PM   #4965
Ryan8bit
Commodore
 
Ryan8bit's Avatar
 
Location: St. Paul, MN
Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Ovation wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
HaventGotALife wrote: View Post

No, the conversation with Spock leads to them being attacked without warning. They wouldn't have been caught off-guard if the relationship wasn't the only thing on her mind.
I really think you're reaching for something to complain about.
x10

Uhura is, at best, a secondary character (tertiary is often equally appropriate). That's it. That's all she has been and, really, that's all she ever NEEDS to be for Star Trek. Can a good Trek story be told where she is the primary character? Sure. That can be done for any of the characters. But it should never be expected, let alone required. Star Trek (no : followed by an acronym) has two lead characters, two secondary characters, three secondary/tertiary characters and scores of minor/incidental characters. It was not conceived as an "ensemble piece" and while it can be written that way, it seems a lot more forced than when done in the :TNG, etc. versions. And when TNG went to movies, the ensemble format began to crumble (though, to me, that often felt as forced as the reverse with TOS).

As such, in a film franchise, the non-leads are rather limited in the scope they can occupy. In a series, there would be a lot more room for non-lead characters to shine and gain in importance. In order for that to change, they'd have to go with a LOTR model and have a gigantic story spread over three very long films to give room to everyone to have a meatier role--I wouldn't hold my breath (a return to TV with a new set of actors is far more likely, relatively speaking--I don't see that happening anytime soon either).

Is Uhura the strongest female character on film in the past year? Hardly. Is this fact a catastrophic setback for women's rights and feminism as an ideology? No. It is simply a film where the two leads are male, all the female characters are supporting characters of varying importance and, well, c'est la vie.
Totally nailed it.
Ryan8bit is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
benedict cumberbatch, grading & discussion, jj abrams

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:09 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.